Formula 1 2024 Season Discussion

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#3255204 1-Jul-2024 16:32

nzkc:

I don't like the "you cant go dive bombing like that" comments. If there's a gap a racer is going to take it. It never looked like Lando was going to t-bar Max at any point so play on. I thought the penalties dished out were fair. Lando for exceeding track limits (when he couldn't stop the car in time) and Max for causing the collision. I'd rather see that kind of "hard", and mostly fair, racing than a boring procession.

To some extent I agree but with Max the issue is that it doesn't just stop there, when under pressure he will constantly push a driver off the track, '19 and '21 are good examples, along with what he did to Lando after the incident when Landon was attempting to get past. Max is an amazingly fast driver but very petulant and his race craft vanishes when no longer the fastest in my opinion.

nzkc

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#3255211 1-Jul-2024 17:01

Benoire:

To some extent I agree but with Max the issue is that it doesn't just stop there, when under pressure he will constantly push a driver off the track, '19 and '21 are good examples, along with what he did to Lando after the incident when Landon was attempting to get past. Max is an amazingly fast driver but very petulant and his race craft vanishes when no longer the fastest in my opinion.

And that's a fair comment too. To me its up to F1 and the stewards to start dishing out harsher penalties if that's happening. Use the "points" fine system etc. Make it so they think twice about that kind of behaviour. Which I think was one of the commentators comments today.

Much like I personally dont think a grid drop for a new engine is enough when you've run out allocation for the season. Start from the pit lane you will. Or even face a race ban. Teams and drivers will go as far up to the line as they think they can get away with. Make it so its not profitable to go beyond it at all.

I agree with an earlier comment about gravel at all tracks please. That _mostly_ fixed the track limits issue at Austria and the couple that were hit with it likely had no benefit anyway.

Benoire

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#3255214 1-Jul-2024 17:05

nzkc:

And that's a fair comment too. To me its up to F1 and the stewards to start dishing out harsher penalties if that's happening. Use the "points" fine system etc. Make it so they think twice about that kind of behaviour. Which I think was one of the commentators comments today.

The stewards have made this worse over the years by not punishing this sort of behaviour from the get go, people praised Ricciardo's last of the late brakers but in reality he was dive bombing up in the inside too and we've all seen Lewis, Rosberg, Alonso et al doing the same thing... If the stewards actually punished poor racing behaviour then perhaps the current rot wouldn't have set in - all in my opinion of course!

Batman

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#3255217 1-Jul-2024 17:25

they didn't punish Max in 2021, why would Max stop doing what he does best

in the words of ANdrea Stella

tdgeek

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#3255228 1-Jul-2024 18:06

I didnt see much in it, Max moved over, but that wasnt a radical move. This happens all the time and in most races. Both were at fault, Max a bit more so. Id hardly call it ramming as someone posted

But everyone is a fan of someone. Back in the Lewis days of him running others off track, which apparently wasnt his fault. Yet the commentary was inevitably A vs B

Race was interesting. It appeared Max was easing away, but everyone was easing away as the race went on, but the finish order was still at play as we saw when Lando got some luck, then it was all on, and IMO Lando was a tad faster. It shows that if you have two good cars and two top drivers, its then about strategy and a bit of luck. Lando exceeded track limits 4 times, he would have got a 5 second penalty which would have removed the luck of Max's slow pitstop

Very much all to play for.

nzkc

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#3255230 1-Jul-2024 18:14

tdgeek:

Lando exceeded track limits 4 times, he would have got a 5 second penalty which would have removed the luck of Max's slow pitstop

Which he got. Its then interesting that Red Bull didnt advise Max (from what we saw). That might have prevented the collision though we'll never know of course. All he then had to do was stay within 5 secs. Yes Lando was faster as he had newer tires. But that advantage would have rapidly been diminishing.

tdgeek

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#3255237 1-Jul-2024 18:34

The rule that you have to leave a cars width. I thought it was cars width so the car is still on track, i.e. where the white line is for track limits? Seems you need to leave space so the whole car is inside track limits according to Ant.

I wonder what the commentary would be if it was Lando's fault?

Perhaps all rules penalties should be if you cause an incident that damages the other car, you get demoted to one spot behind that other car. Bit harder when both contribute though.

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Jaxson

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#3255459 2-Jul-2024 10:53

If you've been karting previously you'll know that frustrating situation where someone is trying for a pass that isn't on, and you have two options. 1) brake to avoid the crash from the person behind, giving them the space but allowing you to go on, or 2) hold your line and risk both being taken out.

If you let the pass go ahead then they'll go on about how great a driver they are, when it's really you that allowed that attempt to happen. It's this level of "if you see a gap go for it" mentality that I don't like.

Watching those two go at it reminded me of that. It was sloppy really, and watching lando position for the gap but fly straight through off the road all locked up was painful. It was so sharp he couldn't even make the corner himself, and if Max hadn't avoided it they would have both been taken out at that point too. This approach is what gave Oscar the place in the sprint race because it slows both drivers involved right down when you go for that technicality "I'm ahead at this point", with now both parties compromised on approach on a sharp corner and those following at full speed/proper lines.

Max showed his true colours again too, which was a reminder we haven't seen him pressured like that in several years now. Moving under braking meaning the passing car has to change their whole approach mid braking was always rough, and Max has done the same as Lando did in the past with the divebomb approach.

Having had time to reflect on this it was just sloppy from both, but hey it gives some spice to the sport so Netflix must be loving it. They had an extra film crew at the event as Carlos was apparently going to announce his move to Williams, but that didn't come to be.

mudguard

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#3255625 2-Jul-2024 16:37

Was it my imagination or was it from the sprint race that they had Verstappen audio complaining about 7th and 8th gear? Did that resolve itself? I don't recall anyone talking about it. He sounded quite irate but could've been giving it the old "Hamilton" these tyres are rubbish..

thermonuclear

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#3255782 2-Jul-2024 23:24

Benoire:

To some extent I agree but with Max the issue is that it doesn't just stop there, when under pressure he will constantly push a driver off the track, '19 and '21 are good examples, along with what he did to Lando after the incident when Landon was attempting to get past. Max is an amazingly fast driver but very petulant and his race craft vanishes when no longer the fastest in my opinion.

Wholeheartedly agree with the last comment, the idea that many of these drivers have discovered maturity is a figment of team representatives and the press who end up parroting it. Verstappen and Tsunoda have appeared "mature" because they have enjoyed periods of dominance in their respective battles. As soon as things get tougher, they revert to type. As much as I don't like Ocon's petulance, at least he is consistently out for No.1 and makes little effort to hide it on the track.

Otherwise a great race in the end. Even though I'm a Lando supporter, he does need to harden up now that he is at the sharp end of the field. The drop-lip introspection after the previous weekends will not get him anywhere I don't believe. In that respect the dust up he's had with Max at the Red Bull Ring might prove quite beneficial in the grander scheme of things.

Putting my parochial hat on, a bit disappointing to see Ricciardo continuing his recent improvement in form. I did hope this triple-header might finish him off and we'd see Liam in the car after the summer break. Seems like a ton of rumours circulating, I'd be quite happy to see Red Bull do a deal with Sauber/Audi to put Lawson in a seat there, though it was mentioned during commentary that Ricciardo might have had talks over there as well. And, what about Flavio re-entering the game, the season just keeps getting better.

Bung

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#3255783 2-Jul-2024 23:45

Jaxson: Moving under braking meaning the passing car has to change their whole approach mid braking was always rough,

Verstappen of course claims that he brakes in a straight line, just not necessarily parallel to the track his opponent wants to take. One commentator agrees that he wasn't steering under brakes. Saying "how would they know they aren't in the car with me?" isn't entirely true, don't the Stewards have data on driver inputs? Has any of that been published?

mudguard

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#3255787 3-Jul-2024 06:31

Bung:
Jaxson: Moving under braking meaning the passing car has to change their whole approach mid braking was always rough,
Verstappen of course claims that he brakes in a straight line, just not necessarily parallel to the track his opponent wants to take. One commentator agrees that he wasn't steering under brakes. Saying "how would they know they aren't in the car with me?" isn't entirely true, don't the Stewards have data on driver inputs? Has any of that been published?

Yeah I was pondering this. How do the rules get around this? If you can't move under braking, then angle your braking point to where you need to turn in? Then you've stayed in a straight line, but as you, just not parallel to the track boundary.

Jvipers2

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#3256620 5-Jul-2024 13:52

Another door closes as F2 star Ollie Bearman promoted to F1 with Haas for 2025...

thermonuclear

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#3256795 5-Jul-2024 22:59

Jvipers2: Another door closes as F2 star Ollie Bearman promoted to F1 with Haas for 2025...

Lots of hype around this kid from the British-dominant press we mostly see, is it warranted? Sure, he subbed in and scored a 7th place in the Ferrari earlier this year, but Sainz got out of his hospital bed the following race weekend and won in the same car. Not sure 7th was as much to write home about as the Brits made out.

Sitting in 14th place in the difficult Prema in F2, the best part of 100 points off the lead in that Championship. I guess we will see what he really has next year, will be an interesting line-up if Haas sign Ocon as is being suggested currently. The Frenchman won't be an easy-beat for sure.

Ragnor

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#3256902 6-Jul-2024 13:34

thermonuclear:

Jvipers2: Another door closes as F2 star Ollie Bearman promoted to F1 with Haas for 2025...

Lots of hype around this kid from the British-dominant press we mostly see, is it warranted? Sure, he subbed in and scored a 7th place in the Ferrari earlier this year, but Sainz got out of his hospital bed the following race weekend and won in the same car. Not sure 7th was as much to write home about as the Brits made out.

Sitting in 14th place in the difficult Prema in F2, the best part of 100 points off the lead in that Championship. I guess we will see what he really has next year, will be an interesting line-up if Haas sign Ocon as is being suggested currently. The Frenchman won't be an easy-beat for sure.

Yeah he's nowhere in in F2, must be depressing for the previous F2 champions sitting on the sidlines: Théo Pourchaire and Felipe Drugovich and the runners up like Robert Shwartzman, Frederik Vesti

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