Formula 1 2024 Season Discussion

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600 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3276731 29-Aug-2024 14:25

tdgeek:

Jaxson: The Lawson loan would have had too much risk, as he could be pulled back to VCARB and redbull at any time if needed.

Yep. Interesting is that in reality thats very rare. They could have loaned him which helps him, helps RBR as extra race experience, (which can help them in a 2025 decision) and helps Williams. If they dumped Perez soon in the next few races, Lawson has had extra experience, Williams got a driver, then Lawson goes to RBR or VCARB and Williams bring in Colapinto. Literally, everyone is a winner.

Loaning Lawson out to Williams would have been the play if they are still unsure about Lawson being given a seat next year. A chance for the Kiwi to race against Ricciardo and Tsunoda, albeit in different machinery, and see how he stacks up. Red Bull have plenty of guys to do the sim work and Hadjar and Iwasa available to drive if they needed someone, or tdgeek's scenario works also.

There's another big break between Singapore and Austin, that has to be the decision time for Red Bull. Singapore weekend ends 22nd Sept so still within the window for letting Lawson know presumably. I think I'd be happier to see him go to Sauber/Audi at this point if he could pull a deal out of the fire there. Red Bull are on a downward trajectory and VCARB will never be allowed to be better than the top team again.

Honda was the key factor that turned Red Bull's fortunes around, with all respect to Newey and his team. Are they going to be able to roll a double six with the RBPT project in 2026. Seems a risky bet this far out. Audi have plenty of experience building a car and power unit, seems more potential up-side for a lengthy stay in F1 if Lawson could get in there.

Jvipers2

213 posts

Master Geek

#3276734 29-Aug-2024 14:50

Last weekend was interesting...one McLaren drove past and into the distant like Max last couple of years but the other can't even pass a Ferrari after easily dispatching a RB...

Russell's pit was interesting...according to the post race analysis it was necessary but still figured he should be able to defend, no?

Lewis wanting fastest lap was funny...even with worn tyres, Lando still did it easily...I'm sure Lewis couldn't accept if they pit for fresher rubber...

Now to see if the Scuderia could pull another surprise on home soil...

PolicyGuy

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#3276740 29-Aug-2024 15:20

thermonuclear:

Honda was the key factor that turned Red Bull's fortunes around, with all respect to Newey and his team. Are they going to be able to roll a double six with the RBPT project in 2026. Seems a risky bet this far out. Audi have plenty of experience building a car and power unit, seems more potential up-side for a lengthy stay in F1 if Lawson could get in there.

Honda are teaming with Aston Martin, not Red Bull, from 2026

RBPT is "partnering" with Ford for its engines for 2026.
I'm not sure if RB is the senior partner, an equal partner with Ford or the junior partner in the arrangement.

thermonuclear

600 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3276746 29-Aug-2024 15:52

PolicyGuy:

thermonuclear:

Honda was the key factor that turned Red Bull's fortunes around, with all respect to Newey and his team. Are they going to be able to roll a double six with the RBPT project in 2026. Seems a risky bet this far out. Audi have plenty of experience building a car and power unit, seems more potential up-side for a lengthy stay in F1 if Lawson could get in there.

Honda are teaming with Aston Martin, not Red Bull, from 2026

RBPT is "partnering" with Ford for its engines for 2026.
I'm not sure if RB is the senior partner, an equal partner with Ford or the junior partner in the arrangement.

Sorry I was a little unclear with my sentence, by "they" I meant Red Bull Power Trains in 2026 not Honda. RBPT was started because of Honda's initial decision to leave F1, which the Japanese company subsequently changed their minds on and ended up partnering with Aston Martin.

As I understand it RBPT is mostly an in-house project, using some of Honda's IP and staff they hired away from Honda. RBPT then shopped around for "partners" to inject capital into the project. They were going to do a deal with Porsche and have subsequently ended up with Ford. I believe the new engine is just going to be a Ford-badged power unit, their main input to it is cash.

Interestingly, the power unit Audi is developing for their entry into F1 is supposed to be initially based on Porsche IP and development work through both being sister companies under the VAG umbrella.

Jaxson

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#3276756 29-Aug-2024 16:49

Playing devils advocate here, Toyota were another major manufacturer who tried it on with F1 and basically failed. Audi doesn't ensure a good car by any means, especially as still restricted to development time and cost caps etc.

I'd simply want to see Lawson in a good moral / culture team initially. Likes of hASS and the main Red Bull have been slaughter fields for new talent that didn't immediately achieve. Red Bull especially will be hard whilst Max is there as he has a unique driving setup style and the cars naturally going to be designed around that where possible.

Of course a decent performance car would be cool too, and currently VCARB looks like a dog. Aston Martin is the surprise failure lately as they have a decent team having lured many staff over and next year are picking up the full Honda backed engine. Thought Yuki would be heading there if Alonso retired due to that connection.

thermonuclear

600 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3276846 29-Aug-2024 20:38

Jaxson:

Playing devils advocate here, Toyota were another major manufacturer who tried it on with F1 and basically failed. Audi doesn't ensure a good car by any means, especially as still restricted to development time and cost caps etc.

I'd simply want to see Lawson in a good moral / culture team initially. Likes of hASS and the main Red Bull have been slaughter fields for new talent that didn't immediately achieve. Red Bull especially will be hard whilst Max is there as he has a unique driving setup style and the cars naturally going to be designed around that where possible.

Of course a decent performance car would be cool too, and currently VCARB looks like a dog. Aston Martin is the surprise failure lately as they have a decent team having lured many staff over and next year are picking up the full Honda backed engine. Thought Yuki would be heading there if Alonso retired due to that connection.

I don't disagree, it's going to be a crap shoot for all manufacturers when the 2026 engine regs commence. Audi do have a lot of pedigree with making good race cars though. RBPT's are a new entity, albeit one with some of the brainpower behind Honda's recent PU. It's anyone's guess who is going to come out with the best engine at this stage. About all we can say is it won't be Renault.

Yeah, I really want to see Lawson establish himself in F1 if he's able to. With all that is going on in the wider Red Bull organisation, you have to wonder if it's a great place to be for the young driver. I look at Doohan who jumped ship from the Red Bull Junior programme and wonder if that wasn't a really smart move. I guess we will all know sooner than later on that.

In the meantime, Monza - The Temple Of Speed. Really looking forward to this weekend. Looks like the track surface has been relayed and the kerbs have been flattened in places. Should assist Verstappen and Red Bull to ride them more aggressively. Still not sure if it will be enough to beat Norris though.

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#3276904 30-Aug-2024 07:15

langi27:

Lawson is toyed with big time, the Horner/Marko relationship sounds really toxic. Then rumors Lawson would get Sargent's William's seat, now this morning he gets no seat, no contract and still sitting on the sidelines watching, meanwhile everyone still talking about him and doing nothing. Thato must be super frustrating.

Colapinto’s backers are paying Williams $4.5 million – or $500,000 per race

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Jaxson

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#3276999 30-Aug-2024 10:12

Bernd Maylander had a crash in the Aston safety car.
Looking like a failure rear left perhaps, but will see what comes of it.

Sounds like the drivers aren't particularly happy with the updates at Monza.
Has been resealed and the curbs are far less brutal than before.
Old school fast track but starts to reduce the uniqueness as it becomes a bit more generic.

Hadn't seen these guys before but an interesting news option.
Might see if they have a podcast. I download these for listening on the plane when travelling for work.

tdgeek

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#3277007 30-Aug-2024 10:30

Drivers aren't happy as they weren't consulted?? Drivers come and go all the time, plus they are biased.

Jaxson

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#3277121 30-Aug-2024 11:11

tdgeek:

Drivers aren't happy as they weren't consulted?? Drivers come and go all the time, plus they are biased.

Yeah the sense of entitlement there was amusing.

thermonuclear

600 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3277125 30-Aug-2024 11:30

Jaxson:

tdgeek:

Drivers aren't happy as they weren't consulted?? Drivers come and go all the time, plus they are biased.

Yeah the sense of entitlement there was amusing.

They can be a bunch of whining prima donnas, but they might have a point with this. The track was already fairly easy and fast (from my extensive F1 game experience), I personally wouldn't want to see the character of this historic circuit diminished.

tdgeek

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#3277923 1-Sep-2024 18:33

Its a new era in F1. Gone are the days of McLaren being dominant (and like all or most us Kiwis we are McLaren fans) The Schummy era where he and team orders dominated. The Vettel era where he and team orders dominated (still miffed when Webber (my GZ user photo) spun before spoon at Suzuka that took him out of contention) The Lewis hybrid era, and the Max era.

Now we have 4 teams that are close. Mercedes look good, then not, Ferrari look good then not, RBR still good (well Max) but not great, and McLaren who look rock solid everywhere.

Then the rookies. Lawson we are still hoping, Bearman looks up to it, Antonelli Im not so sure (not because of his uber uber rookie crash)

Its all happening right now.

Gone are the days when you could bet the house on any given race!!

nzkc

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#3277929 1-Sep-2024 19:07

tdgeek:

Its a new era in F1. Gone are the days of McLaren being dominant....

I dunno... looks like McLaren might be about to become pretty dominant! Two good drivers who are performing and a car that seems to get faster with every race.

tdgeek

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#3277931 1-Sep-2024 19:42

nzkc:

tdgeek:

Its a new era in F1. Gone are the days of McLaren being dominant....

I dunno... looks like McLaren might be about to become pretty dominant! Two good drivers who are performing and a car that seems to get faster with every race.

They will. McLaren 2.0 aka 2024 are the Red Bulls of this season no question. My comment was related to the Mika/DC era

Jaxson

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#3277942 1-Sep-2024 20:36

tdgeek: My comment was related to the Mika/DC era

Ha I got you, but I did do a double take initially 😂

Two things could be a risk for me.
Landos starts have been poor, but his reaction time is on point, so they need to understand that.
Oscar getting the jump on Lando due to a poor start.

Lando is always able to stick behind Oscar but not the other way around.

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