Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

Forums › Sports › Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

1 | ... | 655 | 656 | 657 | 658 | 659 | 660 | 661 | 662 | 663 | 664 | 665 | ... | 677

1117 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 378

#3453546 16-Jan-2026 09:49

I hope Razor is alright at the mo too and has people around him. However, let's not forget that Razor was intimately involved with the highly public and stressful plan to replace Fozzy in 2023. When that was ultimately unsuccessful, he then mounted a campaign involving talk of heading offshore - which forced NZR into announcing him as the next coach before the WC and before Fozzy's term had ended. That further publicly undermined Fozzy and put even more pressure on him.

So Razor has played the game, and other people have suffered. Now unfortunately it's his turn to feel the heat. "Live by the sword die by the sword".

LookingUp

440 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 88

#3453559 16-Jan-2026 10:30

Earbanean:

LookingUp:

In the forward pack there's also something missing - brute force and mongrel. We seem obsessed with "star" players who score tries, without consideration of the need for less glamorous workhorses who are required to secure the ball in the first place. Who cares how many tries a No. 8 scores in NPC or Super rugby if it's at the expense of their core role and the bigger picture, and their team still loses?

I totally disagree with that in terms of Razor and Jason Ryan's selections. Scott Parker and Fabian Holland are bother unflashy, non-try scoring, hard workers (maybe not "mongrel"). Both were elevated into the ABs in the last year. Rather than being "obsessed with "star" players", Razor/Ryan have actually shifted away from more flashy players like Akira Ioane, Hoskins Sotutu etc.

I'll concede that to an extent, you are correct that they did move on from Ioane and Sotutu, but (to me at least) Simon Parker didn't really stamp his authority on the breakdown as he was expected to, and with Ardie at 7 we still seem to be lacking at 8. Whatever the mix, we just don't seem to be able to reliably secure our own ball, and threaten, or at least slow down, the opposition's. Holland has been a revelation, and one can only hope he can maintain the momentum without getting injured. It'll be very interesting to see who emerges as dominant in the Super comp. this year, and how adventurous the AB selectors are following that.

Things are LookingUp.... A photo from my back yard :-)

tukapa1

754 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 238

#3453560 16-Jan-2026 10:30

Earbanean:

I hope Razor is alright at the mo too and has people around him. However, let's not forget that Razor was intimately involved with the highly public and stressful plan to replace Fozzy in 2023. When that was ultimately unsuccessful, he then mounted a campaign involving talk of heading offshore - which forced NZR into announcing him as the next coach before the WC and before Fozzy's term had ended. That further publicly undermined Fozzy and put even more pressure on him.

So Razor has played the game, and other people have suffered. Now unfortunately it's his turn to feel the heat. "Live by the sword die by the sword".

100% this.

I have very little sympathy for a man who set out on an orchestrated campaign to disestablish the incumbents at a time when they were trying to prepare for a World Cup. It was all me, me, me and cheered on by his vociferous and rabid supporters from Canterbury (and wider as well).

Let's see whether he is as magnanimous in his reaction as Fozzie was. I'll be very surprised if he is.

GV27

5979 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#3453590 16-Jan-2026 13:02

LookingUp:

I'll concede that to an extent, you are correct that they did move on from Ioane and Sotutu, but (to me at least) Simon Parker didn't really stamp his authority on the breakdown as he was expected to, and with Ardie at 7 we still seem to be lacking at 8.

They might have moved on, but maybe they shouldn't have. Maybe not ignoring the incredible Blues defense that year (of which Sotutu and Riccitelli were big factors) would have allowed Ioane to play a game more in line with what he was used to. It's not like the All Blacks defense that year as profoundly robust and the parallels with 2003 were there for those who were prepared to see them.

networkn

Networkn
32884 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15483

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3453593 16-Jan-2026 13:13

So, I thought I'd shown the win loss history of the last 20 matches for the coaches who are being considered for replacing Scott Robertson.

Jamie Joseph.

Dave Rennie :

John Mitchell.

I have also heard rumors of a cobbled together group including Ian Foster and JS (who can't join prior to July).

It all makes for pretty sober reading.

networkn

Networkn
32884 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15483

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3453595 16-Jan-2026 13:16

Earbanean:

I hope Razor is alright at the mo too and has people around him. However, let's not forget that Razor was intimately involved with the highly public and stressful plan to replace Fozzy in 2023. When that was ultimately unsuccessful, he then mounted a campaign involving talk of heading offshore - which forced NZR into announcing him as the next coach before the WC and before Fozzy's term had ended. That further publicly undermined Fozzy and put even more pressure on him.

So Razor has played the game, and other people have suffered. Now unfortunately it's his turn to feel the heat. "Live by the sword die by the sword".

Razor definitely played a part in this (and acted like an ass), I agree, but the major failing here was the leadership at NZR, who should never have created the sort of environment where people felt it was either appropriate, or required, to behave this way and only one side of the story was ever presented.

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

networkn

Networkn
32884 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15483

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3453599 16-Jan-2026 13:25

GV27:

They might have moved on, but maybe they shouldn't have. Maybe not ignoring the incredible Blues defense that year (of which Sotutu and Riccitelli were big factors) would have allowed Ioane to play a game more in line with what he was used to. It's not like the All Blacks defense that year as profoundly robust and the parallels with 2003 were there for those who were prepared to see them.

If only Reiko had only that one flaw in his game despite the massive amount of resources poured into him after he basically told NZR he was a center or going overseas. On reflection, they should have just let him go. The lemon most definitely wasn't worth the squeeze on that one.

Foster picked a high number of Blues players who seemed to be performing well, for his AB's before the SR final was even played that year, and the Crusaders spanked them good and proper in the final, and it wasn't until the Blues players (esp in the forwards) were replaced by forwards from other teams, that the AB's started to get go forward.

Earbanean

1117 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 378

#3453601 16-Jan-2026 13:46

networkn:

Razor definitely played a part in this (and acted like an ass), I agree, but the major failing here was the leadership at NZR, who should never have created the sort of environment where people felt it was either appropriate, or required, to behave this way and only one side of the story was ever presented.

Agreed, and Mark Robinson has quite rightly gone. I'm optimistic for the new CEO (and team), given Kirk's involvement in the recruitment process.

Earbanean

1117 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 378

#3453602 16-Jan-2026 13:51

networkn:

So, I thought I'd shown the win loss history of the last 20 matches for the coaches who are being considered for replacing Scott Robertson.

That's all pretty irrelevant. They are coaching completely different teams with different cattle and completely different expectations. Can you really compare the win/loss ratio of Japan with the ABs? Or even Australia these days?

Obviously what we don't have is the counterfactual of what their win/loss ratios would have been over the last two years, if they had coached the ABs. The feeling is that for some of them it would have been better than Razor's. Hence he is being replaced.

networkn

Networkn
32884 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15483

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3453619 16-Jan-2026 14:24

Earbanean:

Agreed, and Mark Robinson has quite rightly gone. I'm optimistic for the new CEO (and team), given Kirk's involvement in the recruitment process.

He should have gone with Foster. There has been a lot of static around Dame Reddy's involvement and the damage it's done to the relationships between NZR and all it's stakeholders and beneficiaries.

GV27

5979 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#3453622 16-Jan-2026 14:37

networkn:

Foster picked a high number of Blues players who seemed to be performing well, for his AB's before the SR final was even played that year, and the Crusaders spanked them good and proper in the final, and it wasn't until the Blues players (esp in the forwards) were replaced by forwards from other teams, that the AB's started to get go forward.

Of the Blues players, Ioane and Christie struggled the most at international level. There were other players who struggled more who were not similarly benched. Blackadder was initially rubbish, as was Reece. At least Blackadder improved somewhat before he was unlucky with injury but it took a while to get there. And Taylor had a period where he was off-song as well.

I'm convinced that had Sotutu and Riccitelli been in the mix for the forwards then the situation would have been very different and there would have been more cohesive play within the forwards and less of an issue with the Blues players in the pack. We'll never know.

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

networkn

Networkn
32884 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15483

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3453629 16-Jan-2026 14:53

Earbanean:

That's all pretty irrelevant. They are coaching completely different teams with different cattle and completely different expectations. Can you really compare the win/loss ratio of Japan with the ABs? Or even Australia these days?

Obviously what we don't have is the counterfactual of what their win/loss ratios would have been over the last two years, if they had coached the ABs. The feeling is that for some of them it would have been better than Razor's. Hence he is being replaced.

Are you kidding?! Coaches are almost always primarily rated on their win ratio, look at the HUGE amount of angst online about us ONLY having 74% under Razor and ONLY having 69% under Foster!

Japan underperformed under JJ since the highs they hit in 2019, with only a few surprise wins in all that time. Considering the budget JRU had, and the power JJ had, and the fact they allow overseas selections with only the barest of qualification requirements, none of which NZ has, there is certainly less excuse for poor performances. JJ led the Highlanders to dead last last season, and has won 1 title in his entire time there. You can say it's a matter of cattle, but you'd hardly say we have more unicorns than SA right now.

Razor isn't being replaced solely on his win/loss ratio. That would be a very hard sell given they retained Foster on a lessor score. It was more the lack of progress than the actual win/loss rate.

He stepped aside because whilst he felt confident he could fix the problems and regain the locker room, the trust wouldn't build fast enough to see the improvements on field they needed to be showing.

Joe Schmidt probably has the best group of players that Australia has had overall for quite a number of years. They made some early decent gains, and have been on a downslide since then.

JS deserves credit for his contribution to the AB's as an assistant, I am not sure he would acheive the same for the AB's. Foster was underrated as a tactician and for his game plan, when he got assistants who could execute his vision, we made pretty signficant progress very quickly.

If I was picking a coaching ticket right now, JS as head coach (with some responsibilit for defence) with Joseph as attack coach, Ryan as his assistant (forwards and shared defence), and perhaps 1-2 overseas picks would be who I'd be looking to hire. Brown has an out in his contract with the Boks, but as I understand it, it let's him leave, but not to go to a tier one team (ala Scott Robertson).

Scott Hansen was supposedly quite instrumental in helping JJ to the highs Japan had, there is a reasonable chance he would be retained. There is something about him that rubs me the wrong way, but lots of people who are good at their jobs aren't neccessarily nice people.

All in all, I think it's going to take a fair bit to get us past the semi's this time around, I'd be disappointed but not surprised, if we can't get past the quarters, given our draw, with the lack of progress, and disruption of an entire coaching line up.

networkn

Networkn
32884 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15483

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3453630 16-Jan-2026 15:01

GV27:

Of the Blues players, Ioane and Christie struggled the most at international level. There were other players who struggled more who were not similarly benched. Blackadder was initially rubbish, as was Reece. At least Blackadder improved somewhat before he was unlucky with injury but it took a while to get there. And Taylor had a period where he was off-song as well.

I'm convinced that had Sotutu and Riccitelli been in the mix for the forwards then the situation would have been very different and there would have been more cohesive play within the forwards and less of an issue with the Blues players in the pack. We'll never know.

Reece was pretty inconsistent, but he scored tries that only Reece would score, and was also really good in putting himself in phases to help others score. I was OK he was dropped in the end.

There are few coaches I trust more than Ryan, and it was Ryan who had the big problem with Sotutu, and his #mosthated nonsense wasn't a surprise and gave the distinct impression that Ryans issue with Sotutu's attitude was spot on. I think we did Ok without him. Like Akira, on song, hard to beat, but it wasn't consistent enough. Kirifi was a mistake in my opinion. He had good moments, but he doesn't move bodies at test level the way I think traditional test 7's can.

Are you suggesting we should have dropped Taylor for Ricitelli? Or included him and played him instead of the other hookers?

I think Rueben Love should have been moved to 10. If they weren't playing him, then he should have been 10 for the AB's XV, that seemed a travesty considering how exposed we are at 10 right now. We had plenty of 15 cover and almost nothing at 10.

networkn

Networkn
32884 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15483

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3453632 16-Jan-2026 15:10

Earbanean:

That's all pretty irrelevant. They are coaching completely different teams with different cattle and completely different expectations. Can you really compare the win/loss ratio of Japan with the ABs? Or even Australia these days?

Obviously what we don't have is the counterfactual of what their win/loss ratios would have been over the last two years, if they had coached the ABs. The feeling is that for some of them it would have been better than Razor's. Hence he is being replaced.

A shorter response to this is, you'd expect that to be considered for a position with the National team, you should have shown you can help a team fairly consistently perform slightly above expectation given the resources you have available to you. This shows you can get the best our of your players and have the tactical nous to find a style of play that suits the team you have, and a game plan to limit the damage a better team can do against you? Does this sound like JJ to you? I see little evidence to indicate it.

He does seem like a nice guy though and he has experience. Perhaps we don't need a genius.

johno1234

3386 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2868

#3453634 16-Jan-2026 15:13

Win ratio is the main metric but not the only one. The team's trend or trajectory is a big one as well and the nature of the wins and losses also counts. The loss to SA in Wellington would rate as one of the most abject disasters I have ever seen from the All Blacks and the trajectory was not positive.

1 | ... | 655 | 656 | 657 | 658 | 659 | 660 | 661 | 662 | 663 | 664 | 665 | ... | 677