Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#3458423 3-Feb-2026 14:43

I was quite a bit more confident about our cup chances at this stage last cycle and felt people were absolutely unhinged in their predictions we wouldn't exit the pool stages. I don't have nearly that same level of confidence esp changing coaches, plus the fact we don't have the same calibre of player and experience we did during that time.

I hope whomever comes in can turn things around and get the most from the current group of players, but I see perhaps 2 players who would be considered World XV contenders in their respective positions, with a couple who with more time in the saddle could step up. We have some excellent players in the group, though they certainly aren't at their peak now.

We could have potentially been looking a fair bit better than we are now, with a decent 10, but it seems the pressure to perform got the better of Robertson who I think would otherwise may have moved MacKenzie out of 10 sooner and given Love or someone else an opportunity.

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#3458491 3-Feb-2026 20:34

Rennie coached the Chiefs from 2012-2017 inclusive.

Over that time they received 41 yellow cards and no red cards. Average 6.8 cards a season.

Over the same period the Crusaders received 32 yellow cards and no red cards. Average 5.3 cards a season.

Not a great difference.

Doesn't paint the picture of a thug coach going out to win at all costs. Struggling to find stats on what each yellow card was for but there are a number of yellow cards dished out every year for other than thug behaviour.

Whole of Super Rugby stats over that time have the Jaguares as being the most carded team at an average of 10 per season (two seasons played at that stage), followed by the Waratahs averaging 8 and the Kings averaging 7.33 (three seasons played).

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#3458510 3-Feb-2026 22:19

I hope whomever comes in can turn things around and get the most from the current group of players

Me too, big list of things for new coach to sort out and not much time

No clear first five

Loose trio make up

No center partnership

But they just need to string together three good games in a row with or without the coach (looking at you France 2011 and England 2007)😂

Earbanean

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#3458563 4-Feb-2026 09:13

lachlanw:

I hope whomever comes in can turn things around and get the most from the current group of players

Me too, big list of things for new coach to sort out and not much time

No clear first five

Loose trio make up

No center partnership

But they just need to string together three good games in a row with or without the coach (looking at you France 2011 and England 2007)😂

I would add to your list, 'Kicking Game'. Including, both our kicking and also our kick receiving. i.e. catching.

lachlanw:

No clear first five

The Stuff article yesterday about the ABs WC draw, had a nice picture of Richie Mounga in the ABs at the top of the story. Coincidence?

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#3458646 4-Feb-2026 11:40

I really struggled to understand why the kicking was such a problem pretty much the entire way through the Robertson era. It's not like it wasn't an obvious weakness, and it's not like the people who were struggling were struggling at Super Rugby Level?

Tactical kicking and catching the high ball are skills you practice and get better at with more experience, though kicking particularly whilst ball in play requires an understanding of the space and where your chasers are and this is harder to learn, and honestly, considering they had coaches for pretty much every thing including a lineout coach. It's hard to believe they didn't have someone or couldn't have hired someone to address these issues specfically. To me it feels like something else more fundamental was amiss.

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#3458647 4-Feb-2026 11:43

I've said this before, but Richie Mo'unga shined under Robertson, and it felt like he was given a license for the Crusaders he wasn't given under Foster, to express himself.

I think a more limited and structured approach was put on him and that really did not suit his style and so therefore he didn't thrive to the same degree.

If he comes back, it will be interesting to see how he goes under the new coaching regime.

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#3458651 4-Feb-2026 12:27

networkn:

I really struggled to understand why the kicking was such a problem pretty much the entire way through the Robertson era. It's not like it wasn't an obvious weakness, and it's not like the people who were struggling were struggling at Super Rugby Level?

Tactical kicking and catching the high ball are skills you practice and get better at with more experience, though kicking particularly whilst ball in play requires an understanding of the space and where your chasers are and this is harder to learn, and honestly, considering they had coaches for pretty much every thing including a lineout coach. It's hard to believe they didn't have someone or couldn't have hired someone to address these issues specfically. To me it feels like something else more fundamental was amiss.

I reckon a lot of the kicking was due to a lack of confidence in the attack to do something useful with the ball in hand, AND lack of confidence in our ability to secure the ball at the breakdown. It just seems lazy, and to lack commitment. Also, you can tell by the lack of kick chasers on some occasions, that it isn't a called move - more spur of the moment or default action. The one thing that Mo'unga had was the ability to keep the opposition loosies honest, which created more time for his outside backs, because if they hung off him he'd take the gap and be gone. BB and (to a lesser extent) DMac look far too predictable which allows the defense to anticipate. You can tell by the static way they're waiting for the ball that they're going to kick, or failing that, run sideways and/or just the ball shovel on to someone equally as flat footed.

Also, on the subject of kicking, this whole "halfback puts his leg straight back 5 mins before he eventually picks the ball and kicks over the top", telegraphs the move horrendously, and needs to be stopped. I wait in anticipation of one taking that pose and then either passing or going on a snipe himself (which never happens), but it's as if they don't even know they're doing it. It's just too formulaic, and as if they're playing to too strict a pattern. We used to thrive on chaos and panic in the opposition, but we just don't seem to be able to create that any more.

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#3458655 4-Feb-2026 12:39

If he comes back, it will be interesting to see how he goes under the new coaching regime.

I never understood why he left when he knew Razor would likely be the next coach. Money I guess, but surely you would want a decent run at being All Black 10?

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#3458657 4-Feb-2026 12:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrMYIHrQi-c

This was a good discussion around why there is so much box kicking now

Earbanean

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#3458699 4-Feb-2026 14:11

One interesting new rule in the law changes announced for Super Rugby this year, is that the attacking team cannot add any more players to a ruck after the ref calls "use it". I guess that's designed to reduce the use of the 'caterpillar' and decrease the time taken at the breakdown, setting up the box kick.

I'm fully in favour of these mods, but if they aren't adopted by the IRB, then we further increase the gap between how our players play Super Rugby and how they need to play test rugby.

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#3459349 6-Feb-2026 14:05

France back to playing Champange rugby off the back of a pretty weak performance by Ireland, what a difference a few years makes.

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#3459352 6-Feb-2026 14:13

Yikes! Then there were two. The search has finished and applications have closed. It's understood only two contenders have applied. Joseph and Rennie (ick). Rennie is off contract in June, and NZR would need to find a solution to Josephs contract with the Highlanders.

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#3459434 7-Feb-2026 08:48

Todays NZH article by Shayne Currie should give those of you who believe Kirk is above reproach a decent pause. It's pretty clear this should have been handled differently.

This is is pretty much how Australia and the Warriors sunk. Players contacting Board members. It paints a pretty duplicitous picture of Ardie Savea as well.

Why he felt he needed to do that, is a different story, and there are clearly elements around Robertsons handling of pressure which indicate he wasn't coaching the AB's the way he had done the rest of his career. Kirk however, should not have been in regularly communication with players.

It seems pretty clear the outcome of the meeting with Robertson was predetermined.

I am not saying Robertson was a box of roses, it's clear things weren't right, but NZR don't appear to have learned from mistakes made in the past.

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#3459478 7-Feb-2026 15:06

It seems pretty clear the outcome of the meeting with Robertson was predetermined.

Of course, but there is a legal process to follow. If you get called to performance meeting and told to bring a lawyer chances are it's probably going to take a miracle to turn it around. And basd on the observations in article (even from the crusaders players) it wasn't going well.

It paints a pretty duplicitous picture of Ardie Savea as well

Interesting that wasn't my takeaway from it, my read was that Ardie wasn't happy with the AB environment in 2024, committed to make it positive in 2025 and was still not enjoying it. At that point his options are: Go to the coach directly and ask for changes (making it about him, not ideal in a team environment), talk to senior leaders and go to the coach (media paints it as player led revolt), or leave the current setup by negotiating an early exit with his employers.

If he was acting with malice towards Robertson he could have stayed in the environment and made it toxic.

The other takeaway is that it sounded pretty disfunctional, the example of giving responsibility for the back three to McDonald, not letting him select, but have to explain to players why they weren't selected seems farcical.

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#3459708 8-Feb-2026 10:35

lachlanw:

It seems pretty clear the outcome of the meeting with Robertson was predetermined.

A fair employer does not call a meeting of this nature with a predetermined outcome, which is pretty clearly what happened.

Whilst we will never know what was in the review, there is a quite easy way to stack the deck for a particular outcome. It's all in the wording of your questions.

It paints a pretty duplicitous picture of Ardie Savea as well

The moment that the players are talking to the chair of the board, the entire process is broken. Even if an approach was made, it should have been put back through the appropriate channels.

Plus the article says Robertson thought the relationship with Ardie was good, all the time Ardie was going behind his back to raise concerns.

If he was acting with malice towards Robertson he could have stayed in the environment and made it toxic.

I'd say it was happening anyway. If you are nice to someones face and talking about them behind their back....

The other takeaway is that it sounded pretty disfunctional, the example of giving responsibility for the back three to McDonald, not letting him select, but have to explain to players why they weren't selected seems farcical.

I'd imagine this is how it happens in almost every setup. Under Hansen and Ted, who were the selectors? If you have responsibility for a player, it's your job to get them ready and explain when they aren't.

Do you think Rassie is having conversions each week with the people who aren't selected? That's the assistants job.

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