How did NZ lose this test match?

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TeaLeaf

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#209098 12-Mar-2017 15:44

Ok I know day 5 was called off.

But Watling dropping elgar gave SA 100 runs, Latham scoring next to nothing yet again and dropping a sitter in the slips which would have had us into the middle order, 2 other poor catch attempts and terrible fielding and not bowling Southee with Santner doing nothing with the bat or ball again. We should have won it on day 4 half way through, a huge win DROPPED.

Imo the selector and the coach are hugely to blame.

So now along with Taylor injured, we have Boult injured and Guptil mis managed and out for another 6 weeks, Larsen imo needs to go in selecting.

Id like to try Watling as an opener and drop Santner who along with Latham has had too many chances and done sweet FA. Pick your best team and play them.

Watling
Raval
Williamson
Taylor
Guptil
Munro
Nesham
Wagner
Southee
Boult
Sodhi

Thats the best 11 NZ has in bowling and fielding imo. We need Batsman who can bat and bowlers who can bowl, not 4 part timers.

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#1735337 12-Mar-2017 16:35

Bring back Lance Cairns.....or his father

Jas777

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#1735576 13-Mar-2017 10:28

Tealeaf

Guptill, 47 test matches average 29.38. Had a run of big scores in ODIs 2 years ago brought into test team failed. Why would he succeed now?

Do you really want the wicket keeper who may have to keep for 1 - 2 days open the batting 10 minutes later?

What has Neesham ever done?

Jaxson

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#1735582 13-Mar-2017 10:48

How did NZ lose this test match?

The other team won.

Ramboss

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#1735583 13-Mar-2017 10:49

Can't use Guptill he is out injured

itxtme

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#1735590 13-Mar-2017 10:57

Jaxson:

The other team won.

I take it you didnt watch the game? It was a draw.

I dont think Guptil is a test player, he knows that and I think is comfortable with that. Every time he plays tests it affects his short game ability. Latham may be his opposite, has never done well at one day cricket, and now the bad form has come into his test games. Agree some of that fielding is unforgivable!

kiwifidget

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#1735593 13-Mar-2017 11:02

And it doesn't help when the third umpire completely redefines the definition of a no-ball delivery.

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Jaxson

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#1735612 13-Mar-2017 11:16

itxtme:

Jaxson:

The other team won.

I take it you didnt watch the game? It was a draw.

Snap lol.

tdgeek

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#1735688 13-Mar-2017 12:15

Jas777:

Tealeaf

Guptill, 47 test matches average 29.38. Had a run of big scores in ODIs 2 years ago brought into test team failed. Why would he succeed now?

Do you really want the wicket keeper who may have to keep for 1 - 2 days open the batting 10 minutes later?

What has Neesham ever done?

Batting as a closer down the order. Opening is not his thing, playing freely is. Id put him at say 5 just to be official, but Id call him out when it suits the team and the oppositon bowlers and the situation, like a floater. If he gives you 5 overs at 30, thats better than 20 overs at 35. Be a bit innovative

tdgeek

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#1735689 13-Mar-2017 12:17

But, TBH, we are not good enough at the moment. We are in a slump. Maybe our best best team is nearly there but we can never play them all, and we dont have a screaming crowd of others knocking on the door

floydbloke

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#1735785 13-Mar-2017 14:33

tdgeek:

But, TBH, we are not good enough at the moment. We are in a slump. Maybe our best best team is nearly there but we can never play them all, and we dont have a screaming crowd of others knocking on the door

I'm also not convinced that Kane Williamson is the right man to be captain, and I it seems to have affected his batting (although he did get a century last innings, I'd like to see a comparison of his average pre and during captaincy - *goes off to check statsguru on cricinfo).

No idea who to replace him with though.

ETA: His test average is better as captain, his ODI average is worse.

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MikeAqua

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#1735789 13-Mar-2017 14:35

We didn't. We drew it.

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Jas777

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#1736679 15-Mar-2017 09:58

tdgeek:

Jas777:

Tealeaf

Guptill, 47 test matches average 29.38. Had a run of big scores in ODIs 2 years ago brought into test team failed. Why would he succeed now?

Do you really want the wicket keeper who may have to keep for 1 - 2 days open the batting 10 minutes later?

What has Neesham ever done?

Batting as a closer down the order. Opening is not his thing, playing freely is. Id put him at say 5 just to be official, but Id call him out when it suits the team and the oppositon bowlers and the situation, like a floater. If he gives you 5 overs at 30, thats better than 20 overs at 35. Be a bit innovative

It is test cricket. If you brought him out because a certain bowler was on they would change back to what he finds difficult.

The other problem you get is that batting at 5 or 6 he is just as likely to be facing either a spinner or the new ball, both which are his issue. The big difference between test cricket and limited overs is that against the best teams you don't have the 4th or 5th and even sometimes 3rd cannon fodder bowler. And the issue doesn't just apply to Guptill, plenty of other batsman are good at limited overs but not so much in test cricket.

TeaLeaf

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#1740281 16-Mar-2017 13:21

itxtme:

I dont think Guptil is a test player, he knows that and I think is comfortable with that.

I dont mean play Guptil at opener, as the commentators keep saying we need someone who can play with some intent.

Like I listed him in the above team, drop him down the order.

averaging 30 isnt that bad, sheesh, id take that with his ability at ODI style play and strike rate any day. Brendan Mccullum wasnt any better at 7.

What we need is openers who can protect Williamson and Taylor from the new ball, if we cant find an opener who can smash its like Warner or Mccullum.

IMO Watling needs to be in the team, instead of wasting his ability to see off a new ball down the line, try him at opener. Latham is a waste of space, if we want new blood we need to look elsewhere and not Rutherford.

Put guptil in at 5 and let him do what comes natural to him, which is not tipney runs, aka protecting your wicket like a test opener, its not his natural game.

He is going on the Indian tour so I dont think Im wrong in saying he will play once fit.

Also I think we should make room for Munro who averages over 50 in 1st class.

Our batting order is shallow and WEAK sauce.

As for what has Nesham done, well averaging 37 in tests with the bat is handy as an all rounder, and his bowling is on par with Santner. Santner is a nothing. He cant bat and he cant bowl WELL, he does both very average, so why do we persist with him. Nesham is a far better all rounder. Also not a fan on De Gron Holme, aka "I havnt done anything since my debut innings". Id be picking Ferguson for his youth and pace and teaching him the Starc yorker. We have no other bowlers bowling above 140 let alone 150, you need that pace in a test team.

Today is another example of Lathams ability.

Not only did he score next to nothing in the last 2 innings but he also cost us 100 runs with a siitter of a catch, had that been taken and the other easy catches the kiwis dropped, we would have one on day 4 by tea time, we wasted a gimme win and now we are about to lose a game in Welli.

IMO Larsen needs to go at Selector and Hesson needs to change his mentality in tests, our ODI and T20 vs Test ranking show we need a stronger batting squad for the Tests. What we need is dedicated Batsmen and dedicated Fielders, not 3 all rounders and 2 average spinners. Pick your best team and play it and Ish Sodhi is our only spinner with the capability to rip it.

TeaLeaf

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#1740283 16-Mar-2017 13:23

floydbloke:

I'm also not convinced that Kane Williamson is the right man to be captain, and I it seems to have affected his batting (although he did get a century last innings, I'd like to see a comparison of his average pre and during captaincy - *goes off to check statsguru on cricinfo).

No idea who to replace him with though.

ETA: His test average is better as captain, his ODI average is worse.

I agree, hes a terrible captain. I think you highlighted the problem, but honestly, why wasnt Taylor given the job like he wanted?

Williamson is too much of a Flemming type captain. Doesnt put the foot down when its needed. Not ruthless enough, over thinks things.

MikeAqua:

We didn't. We drew it.

I think what I was saying went well over your head, we through away a game we had in the bag is what im saying, not literally we LOST it.

benokobi

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#1740287 16-Mar-2017 13:35

Why is this Latham guy still in the squad.

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