Tourism: More for less or less for more?

Forums › Travel (planes, train, cruise) › Tourism: More for less or less for more?

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Networkn
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#2605925 18-Nov-2020 12:00

nickb800:

I don't see anything proposed to curb the pattern of buying a cheap campervan (van with a mattress in the back, and no toilet), traveling the country for 9 months, then selling it before flying home. I suspect this is the market for the cheapest of the cheap tourists, and the most lacking in toilet facilities. This one is harder to regulate as you need a way to distinguish normal vehicles owned by residents to those bought by tourists as quasi-rentals

Those are the ones I feel are causing the majority of issues, though I have no evidence to support that view other an anacedotal. I do know people who likely sit on both ends of that spectrum, some who are just unable to afford better, but are entirely aware of their impact and would never crap in the bushes, and those who I'd really like to see banned or managed differently, though I don't think there is any practical way to do it.

Rikkitic

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#2605934 18-Nov-2020 12:11

networkn:

I do know people who likely sit on both ends of that spectrum, some who are just unable to afford better, but are entirely aware of their impact and would never crap in the bushes, and those who I'd really like to see banned or managed differently, though I don't think there is any practical way to do it.

I would like to think I was one of those. I managed to see nearly all of North and South Islands in an elderly Toyota station wagon. It was a good car, though it used some oil, and it never let me down. A sleeping bag on a mattress in the back served me well. I never had trouble finding a toilet.

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vexxxboy

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#2605948 18-Nov-2020 12:44

Govt figures. Looking across the last 2 years (2017-18), there were on average around 123,000 international visitors who stated that they had done some freedom camping. That is a lot of spending power to give up, because they do spend money.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Dingbatt

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#2605958 18-Nov-2020 13:13

What had me scratching my head while listening to Stuart Nash on the radio this morning was when he talked about NZ being a valued destination because of our COVID status. But no-one can come here until we are “post-COVID”, either due to widespread vaccination or the infection burning out internationally, so surely that would mean there is zero future benefit in our status now.

Combine that with “The Great Reset” post-COVID and there will be no long haul travel. In fact the ‘High Value Tourists’ having divested themselves of their wealth won’t actually have any to spare. They will have to holiday local in Europe, Asia or North America.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

nickb800

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#2605959 18-Nov-2020 13:16

vexxxboy:

Govt figures. Looking across the last 2 years (2017-18), there were on average around 123,000 international visitors who stated that they had done some freedom camping. That is a lot of spending power to give up, because they do spend money.

Looking at the minister's comments, he's not talking so much about discouraging freedom campers, rather not putting effort into attracting them. We will always have hordes of people coming in without marketing campaigns due to the likes of social media, news coverage, friends/family, etc. But if the government is going to spend (say) $100m on overseas advertising, then they could spend 100% of that on targeting high value tourists rather than mass market campaigns.

The critique of freedom campers that we've seen in the media over the past few years is pretty blunt - there's a huge spectrum within that 123,000. At one end, people paying $400 per day for a Maui camper - I'd bet they are spending a truckload on restaurant/cafe food, guided attractions, etc. Somewhere in the middle are people spending $150 per day on a Wicked Camper, and probably more supermarket food/cheaper activities. At the bottom of the spectrum are those with quasi-rentals - buying a dunger van in Auckland and selling it on after 9 months touring - they probably live on 2 minute noodles and just do free DoC walks.

If anything, we could probably do with more of the Maui type freedom campers. I think most people would want fewer of the quasi-rental group.

networkn

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#2605966 18-Nov-2020 13:19

Dingbatt:

What had me scratching my head while listening to Stuart Nash on the radio this morning was when he talked about NZ being a valued destination because of our COVID status. But no-one can come here until we are “post-COVID”, either due to widespread vaccination or the infection burning out internationally, so surely that would mean there is zero future benefit in our status now.

Honestly, some of these ministers probably need someone to filter their thought processes. Or they need to engage their brains for a few minutes or both.

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MikeB4

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#2605968 18-Nov-2020 13:23

Can we please discuss the issue of Free Camping and not the politics of this. Would hate to see this thread disappear into the composting toilet section that is "politics"

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2605969 18-Nov-2020 13:30

MikeB4:

Can we please discuss the issue of Free Camping and not the politics of this. Would hate to see this thread disappear into the composting toilet section that is "politics"

IMO, this thread is about the politics, not freedom camping per se.

Dingbatt

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#2606039 18-Nov-2020 14:12

I took the title to be discussing a few high value tourists vs lots of low value ones. (Surely it would have at least mentioned freedom campers if that was its goal). Perhaps the OP could clarify.

My points are, post-COVID you are competing with the whole world, just like pre-COVID, and if you are chasing the high value ‘eco-tourist’, how can they, in all conscience, justify travelling long haul for that ‘eco-ness’.

You need to know the baseball team is going to turn up before you build a diamond in the cornfield.

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CruciasNZ

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#2606110 18-Nov-2020 14:38

I believe camper vans that do not have an actual toilet should be banned, and actual camper vans should not be allowed to be driven on a Class 1 license. You should need a specific test for that, Class 1C perhaps. That gets tourists out of campervans, but stills allows them to be used by Kiwi's and those committed to being here for awhile (because they'd need to get a NZ License in order to get the sub-license). As an added bonus it also means people in campervans will need to learn how to drive them responsibly; won't fix every one of them, but will improve things a bit.

There are plenty of cheap motels and camping grounds (with bunk lodges) around for the low budget tourists. Granted their not Kiwi cheap, but we are talking about people that are going to drop thousands of $$ on airfares to get here.

This won't stop the determined from bringing a tent or sleeping in a rental car, but it would clean up the bulk of the problem.

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Rikkitic

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#2606161 18-Nov-2020 14:46

Dingbatt:

I took the title to be discussing a few high value tourists vs lots of low value ones. (Surely it would have at least mentioned freedom campers if that was its goal). Perhaps the OP could clarify.

My points are, post-COVID you are competing with the whole world, just like pre-COVID, and if you are chasing the high value ‘eco-tourist’, how can they, in all conscience, justify travelling long haul for that ‘eco-ness’.

You need to know the baseball team is going to turn up before you build a diamond in the cornfield.

Build it and they will come?

I wasn't thinking specifically of freedom campers when I started this thread, but I wasn't excluding them either. My point was more about the wisdom or otherwise of excluding/ignoring/discouraging budget travellers in preference of 'high value' ones as Minister Nash has announced.

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MikeB4

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#2606233 18-Nov-2020 15:27

CruciasNZ:

I believe camper vans that do not have an actual toilet should be banned, and actual camper vans should not be allowed to be driven on a Class 1 license. You should need a specific test for that, Class 1C perhaps. That gets tourists out of campervans, but stills allows them to be used by Kiwi's and those committed to being here for awhile (because they'd need to get a NZ License in order to get the sub-license). As an added bonus it also means people in campervans will need to learn how to drive them responsibly; won't fix every one of them, but will improve things a bit.

There are plenty of cheap motels and camping grounds (with bunk lodges) around for the low budget tourists. Granted their not Kiwi cheap, but we are talking about people that are going to drop thousands of $$ on airfares to get here.

This won't stop the determined from bringing a tent or sleeping in a rental car, but it would clean up the bulk of the problem.

Are you talking Camper Vans or Motor Homes they are not the same. A Camper Van is a converted van and is generally of the size Toyota Hi Ace these are lightweight even when converted as there little if any insulation etc and the materials inside are very lightweight. If you want these to have a special licence then all vans would need a special licence. A Motor Home is a coach build mobile home build on a commercial chassis. These are usually of a much higher standard and are packed with comfort and safety features. If the laden weight of a Motor Home is less than 6,000kgs a class one licence is fine. Some Class A Motor Homes (Bus Style) maybe over that a class 2 maybe needed.

I would be interested in reading what your specific issue with Motor Home/ Camper Van drivers and driving are that you believe there is a need to change the licence criteria.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MurrayM

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#2606305 18-Nov-2020 15:57

Batman:

Having a toilet doesn't mean they'll use them

Exactly. I believe part of the problem is that many rental places supply a chemical toilet with the van but then tell the renters that if they use the toilet then there will be an additional cleaning fee when they return the van. Cheapskate freedom campers don't want to pay the extra fee and so they don't use the included toilet.

Eva888

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#2606471 18-Nov-2020 18:43

As they come in to land, why not hand every tourist a list of do's and dont's in words and pictures with a relevant fine or jail period next to each picture, eg littering, relieving themselves, eating a Kea etc. This way you have a captive audience and they can’t say they didn’t know. You could also show a short film as they do for customs. On the ground customs could ask if they have read and understood the rules.

Chance of a hefty fine is more likely to impress the culprits and you are not banning a subset of people because of the actions of a few. I don’t like the snobbishness of aiming for the wealthier market. As someone else mentioned, the backpacker soon grows into the future entrepreneur.

tdgeek

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#2606472 18-Nov-2020 18:54

Rikkitic:

I wasn't thinking specifically of freedom campers when I started this thread, but I wasn't excluding them either. My point was more about the wisdom or otherwise of excluding/ignoring/discouraging budget travellers in preference of 'high value' ones as Minister Nash has announced.

I took the article as being about tourists cost us money and we want to be sustainable, and they pay their way. Wealthy or low value tourists the same applies. Of course high value are good, ask anyone running a business, but its about tourism and NZ being clean and green which we are not. If NZ wants to only cater for high value tourists, thats a fail. Its about tourism rewarding NZ and keeping it green, not costing us. Yes SOME campers are a problem, but I'd wager many aren't. So we make them all pay a little. Don't see an issue.

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