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Rikkitic

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#279930 17-Nov-2020 16:42
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According to this RNZ item, Stuart Nash – now the tourism minister – wants to bring ‘high value low cost’ tourists to New Zealand who pay their way by shelling out loads of dosh without burdening our environment and resources. In other words (as I read it), ‘luxury’ tourism.

 

There is nothing wrong with this. If we can offer people with lots of money a pricey experience they value, why not? It benefits them and us. But something like this can easily veer off course and become counter-productive by turning into a ticket-clipping exercise, sending tourists away feeling like they have been fleeced. There also seems to be an implication in Nash’s statements that ‘low value’ tourists should not be catered to, or encouraged to visit.

 

If so, I find this alarming and short-sighted. For one thing, low rent visitors don’t always remain that way. Many grow up to become wealthy entrepreneurs, and they will remember the reception they received when they were young backpackers. I travelled the world on a shoestring for years, and in fact that is how I first came to New Zealand. I could not have afforded it any other way, and I am very grateful for the experiences I was able to enjoy on a limited budget. As a side note, I did not crap in the bushes. It is possible to do things on the cheap without behaving like a barbarian.

 

Should budget travellers be discouraged? Is this a good idea? Do people with money want to pay more for the privilege of coming here? Can we offer them things they do want to pay more for? Is it bad policy to slam the door on backpackers? Can we still give them what they seek without becoming overwhelmed?

 

I don’t think budget travellers should be turned away to accommodate high fliers. I don’t think this reflects New Zealand values. But I also don’t think we should have to put up with anti-social behaviour or having our attractions degraded through overuse. So how should we deal with this? Is there a fair middle way? 

 

 





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  #2605611 17-Nov-2020 17:09
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I don't believe he intends to turn backpackers away, exactly. But if we can encourage high spenders then we can keep the revenue up without degrading our environment so much. If we can get half the tourists paying twice as much everything will be much nicer for everyone.





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  #2605822 18-Nov-2020 08:27
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SaltyNZ:

 

I don't believe he intends to turn backpackers away, exactly. But if we can encourage high spenders then we can keep the revenue up without degrading our environment so much. If we can get half the tourists paying twice as much everything will be much nicer for everyone.

 

 

Ultimately, every dollar spent degrades the environment. Generally, it's spent on energy in the end. When that's not spent on productivity or efficiency improvements, it's a nett drain on the environment. So tourists who spend twice as much are not necessarily a good thing, and not necessarily nicer for everyone.

 

 


networkn
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  #2605841 18-Nov-2020 09:17
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SaltyNZ:

 

I don't believe he intends to turn backpackers away, exactly. But if we can encourage high spenders then we can keep the revenue up without degrading our environment so much. If we can get half the tourists paying twice as much everything will be much nicer for everyone.

 

 

Except for local tourists. Tourism prices in NZ have been absolutely insane for quite some time. Covid has forced a tourism pricing reset and made activities your average Kiwi would like to do, much more affordable.  It's also made operators appreciate Kiwi tourists more. Our last 3 trips to QT prior to Covid weren't unpleasant, but there was a feeling that they were almost doing you a favour. The last time, we were much more warmly received and there was a definite change of attitude I think was well overdue. Discussing it with operators in general chat, there was some acknowledgement of those attitudes.

 

As with pretty much everything, it's a balance, and there probably isn't a right answer that suits everyone. 




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  #2605857 18-Nov-2020 09:42
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networkn: Covid has forced a tourism pricing reset and made activities your average Kiwi would like to do, unaffordable.

 

I was under the impression prices had come down because of Covid?

 

Prices were unaffordable prior to Covid which was one reason my family always holidayed overseas.

 

My thoughts are if high spenders are specifically targeted then yes, we will see prices go up for locals which is a bad thing.


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  #2605862 18-Nov-2020 09:49
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Rikkitic:

 

According to this RNZ item, Stuart Nash – now the tourism minister – wants to bring ‘high value low cost’ tourists to New Zealand who pay their way by shelling out loads of dosh without burdening our environment and resources. In other words (as I read it), ‘luxury’ tourism.

 

 

According to this NZ Herald item, Nash wants to ban campers without self-contained toilet facilities and find ways to charge tourists more. Not exactly friendly towards the budget traveller.


networkn
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  #2605863 18-Nov-2020 09:52
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Dratsab:

 

networkn: Covid has forced a tourism pricing reset and made activities your average Kiwi would like to do, unaffordable.

 

I was under the impression prices had come down because of Covid?

 

Prices were unaffordable prior to Covid which was one reason my family always holidayed overseas.

 

My thoughts are if high spenders are specifically targeted then yes, we will see prices go up for locals which is a bad thing.

 

 

You are totally right and it was what I was trying to write before I got distracted by a call. I have corrected my original post to reflect that.

 

 


 
 
 

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Rikkitic

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  #2605869 18-Nov-2020 10:03
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SirHumphreyAppleby:

 

According to this NZ Herald item, Nash wants to ban campers without self-contained toilet facilities and find ways to charge tourists more. Not exactly friendly towards the budget traveller.

 

 

Maybe there is an argument to be made for banning camper vehicles that are not self-contained. I'm not sure. There was a rash of stories about tourists relieving themselves anywhere and everywhere. Was that overdone or is it really such a problem? A friendlier response might be the placement of more facilities, even temporary ones, in strategic spots together with an education campaign (accompanied by fines for transgressions) targeted at visitors.

 

 





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MikeB4
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  #2605874 18-Nov-2020 10:11
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Rikkitic:

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe there is an argument to be made for banning camper vehicles that are not self-contained. I'm not sure. There was a rash of stories about tourists relieving themselves anywhere and everywhere. Was that overdone or is it really such a problem? A friendlier response might be the placement of more facilities, even temporary ones, in strategic spots together with an education campaign (accompanied by fines for transgressions) targeted at visitors.

 

 

 

 

In our travels we have been to sites that have facilities and "people" has used the ground around for certain tasks and ignored the building with the words Men Women emblazoned on it. 





Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.


networkn
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  #2605875 18-Nov-2020 10:14
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MikeB4:

 

In our travels we have been to sites that have facilities and "people" has used the ground around for certain tasks and ignored the building with the words Men Women emblazoned on it. 

 

 

That would be in the vast minority, surely? I mean you can't stop every idiot, but in most cases where there are facilities, people will use them.

 

 


networkn
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  #2605876 18-Nov-2020 10:14
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Rikkitic:

 

SirHumphreyAppleby:

 

According to this NZ Herald item, Nash wants to ban campers without self-contained toilet facilities and find ways to charge tourists more. Not exactly friendly towards the budget traveller.

 

 

Maybe there is an argument to be made for banning camper vehicles that are not self-contained. I'm not sure. There was a rash of stories about tourists relieving themselves anywhere and everywhere. Was that overdone or is it really such a problem? A friendlier response might be the placement of more facilities, even temporary ones, in strategic spots together with an education campaign (accompanied by fines for transgressions) targeted at visitors.

 

 

 

 

Education doesn't really work that well in these situations I don't think. Policing it and managing the facilities is a real resource hog which will somewhat eat up the benefits financially. In theory though, if there is a toilet nearby then people are more likely to use it.

 

Perhaps the rental of a campervan should have a "license" associated with it, which requires reading of some material and a basic test, and perhaps with rental of non self-contained vans, we apply a decent surcharge to help offset the costs of your proposed ideas. 

 

 


MikeB4
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  #2605879 18-Nov-2020 10:17
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networkn:

 

 

 

That would be in the vast minority, surely? I mean you can't stop every idiot, but in most cases where there are facilities, people will use them.

 

 

 

 

You would like think so but sadly not really. It is why many local councils are making it harder for free camping and that is also impacting on folks like ourselves that have a fully certified self-contained caravan.





Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.


 
 
 
 

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Rikkitic

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  #2605916 18-Nov-2020 11:31
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If people cannot be trained to the level of cats, then they most certainly should be banned. One of the things I loved about NZ when I first came here was the freedom camping. This is long gone in most of Europe. How f-ing hard can be to use a bloody toilet? I always managed to park for the night near one. Every town has them. So do parks, recreation areas, DOC campsites, etc. Most of these places were either free to park in or only cost a couple dollars. Anyone who can afford to fly here can afford that.

 

 

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


MikeB4
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  #2605918 18-Nov-2020 11:36
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Rikkitic:

 

If people cannot be trained to the level of cats, then they most certainly should be banned. One of the things I loved about NZ when I first came here was the freedom camping. This is long gone in most of Europe. How f-ing hard can be to use a bloody toilet? I always managed to park for the night near one. Every town has them. So do parks, recreation areas, DOC campsites, etc. Most of these places were either free to park in or only cost a couple dollars. Anyone who can afford to fly here can afford that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, take only photos leave only footprints. My wife also insists we try to fix any wheel ruts we may make.





Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.


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  #2605920 18-Nov-2020 11:52
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My read is that the minister is making big talk about shifting to higher value tourists but only proposing a minor tinkering.

Relatively few hire camper vans have no toilet altogether, although many of the cheaper ones will have a chemical toilet under the bed which means that it doesn't get used in practice (certainly not at night). Making an easily accessed toilet a requirement for hire campervans is a sensible step and would have a negligible effect on the cost of hire - although it may eliminate the option of smaller vehicles like estimas. I don't think it will change the number of cheap tourists coming here, just encourage the cheap tourists to toilet in the bushes less.

I don't see anything proposed to curb the pattern of buying a cheap campervan (van with a mattress in the back, and no toilet), traveling the country for 9 months, then selling it before flying home. I suspect this is the market for the cheapest of the cheap tourists, and the most lacking in toilet facilities. This one is harder to regulate as you need a way to distinguish normal vehicles owned by residents to those bought by tourists as quasi-rentals

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  #2605922 18-Nov-2020 11:57
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nickb800: My read is that the minister is making big talk about shifting to higher value tourists but only proposing a minor tinkering.

Relatively few hire camper vans have no toilet altogether, although many of the cheaper ones will have a chemical toilet under the bed which means that it doesn't get used in practice (certainly not at night). Making an easily accessed toilet a requirement for hire campervans is a sensible step and would have a negligible effect on the cost of hire - although it may eliminate the option of smaller vehicles like estimas. I don't think it will change the number of cheap tourists coming here, just encourage the cheap tourists to toilet in the bushes less.

I don't see anything proposed to curb the pattern of buying a cheap campervan (van with a mattress in the back, and no toilet), traveling the country for 9 months, then selling it before flying home. I suspect this is the market for the cheapest of the cheap tourists, and the most lacking in toilet facilities. This one is harder to regulate as you need a way to distinguish normal vehicles owned by residents to those bought by tourists as quasi-rentals

 

Having a toilet doesn't mean they'll use them


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