Tourism: More for less or less for more?

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#2606821 19-Nov-2020 11:21

Batman:

Having a toilet doesn't mean they'll use them

Very true. All they need for a self-contained sticker is a portaloo. You can get a self-contained certification for a small station wagon. Is anyone really going to use a portaloo for #2s inside a station wagon that they also sleep in? Or as van they also cook in. Headroom, privacy, odour are all issues.

The other thing - you can buy/make the sticker without having a certificate ...

Mike

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#2606854 19-Nov-2020 11:57

MikeAqua:

Very true. All they need for a self-contained sticker is a portaloo. You can get a self-contained certification for a small station wagon. Is anyone really going to use a portaloo for #2s inside a station wagon that they also sleep in? Or as van they also cook in. Headroom, privacy, odour are all issues.

The other thing - you can buy/make the sticker without having a certificate ...

Make your argument but don't make things up. I spent three months touring Australia with a friend in a converted Toyota Hi-Ace. We had a chemical toilet with us the whole time which we did use and there was never any trace of odour, even in the very hot Aussie summer. That is what the chemicals are for. The interior space of the van is not much greater than that of a station wagon. We also slept and cooked in the van. No problem at all. I would not have an issue carrying one of these in a car. If you apply common sense to this, the toilet would probably not be that frequently used anyway most of the time. It would just be there as a backup between public toilet stops.

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#2606885 19-Nov-2020 13:14

Rikkitic:

Make your argument but don't make things up. I spent three months touring Australia with a friend in a converted Toyota Hi-Ace. We had a chemical toilet with us the whole time which we did use and there was never any trace of odour, even in the very hot Aussie summer. That is what the chemicals are for. The interior space of the van is not much greater than that of a station wagon. We also slept and cooked in the van. No problem at all. I would not have an issue carrying one of these in a car. If you apply common sense to this, the toilet would probably not be that frequently used anyway most of the time. It would just be there as a backup between public toilet stops.

I was referring to odour during not after. It's not making things up to say that 🤬 stinks.

I know that chem-loos function well. I have one on my boat. Even with a door for privacy, and mechanical ventilation it's rarely used for #2s. Most people would rather just hold on.

I can see how one could get the job done in a Hi Ace reasonable head room But in a little station wagon ... really?

Your argument doesn't address people who just buy the sticker and place it on their vehicle see this article.

One of my favourite kayak launching spots in the sounds was popular with van-packers. They had ruined the place - rubbish, excrement, TP etc. Now there are few van-packers in NZ, it's back to a tidy state. And driving is much more enjoyable without them behaving like the cholesterol of the roads.

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#2606904 19-Nov-2020 13:26

Last year we were travelling over the Napier -Taupo highway, we stopped at the falls lookout got out and the place stunk like an uncleaned public toilet after new years eve. There toilet paper everywhere and the stench was disgusting. We got back in the car after a couple of minutes and moved on. We then stopped at the rest area further along by the river and it was the same story. Where do these folk get the idea that this behaviour is acceptable.

On the Kapiti coast we have found similar literally meters from toilet blocks ?????

Another thing if a rubbish bin is full take rubbish with you until you can dispose of it in an adult manner pilling it up on the ground around the bin is plain stupid and antisocial.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2606971 19-Nov-2020 13:58

OldGeek:

I propose a different approach - how to we allow our border to be re-opened for international tourism visitors? Is this possible when MIQ is an absolute necessity?

I believe all the certified hotels are already basically full just with returning kiwis. On the other hand it's hard to feel sympathetic for, say, Queenstown who (at least some of) were crying about not having any guests whilst at the same time NIMBYing away a plan to hold COVID quarantines.

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#2606976 19-Nov-2020 14:07

SaltyNZ:

OldGeek:

I propose a different approach - how to we allow our border to be re-opened for international tourism visitors? Is this possible when MIQ is an absolute necessity?

I believe all the certified hotels are already basically full just with returning kiwis. On the other hand it's hard to feel sympathetic for, say, Queenstown who (at least some of) were crying about not having any guests whilst at the same time NIMBYing away a plan to hold COVID quarantines.

I'm not sure that NIMBYing was the reason for a lack of MIQ facilities in Queenstown - more the lack of medical facilities (should an outbreak occur) which is a reasonable point, given they've effectively got a country hospital

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#2606978 19-Nov-2020 14:12

I am not sure Nimbying is a word 😁

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Oblivian

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#2606987 19-Nov-2020 14:41

They have left a gaping hole in the story.

The majority of the campers in question for the many previous pictures of clogged up camps. Weren't/Aren't hired. Restricting Hire, won't to squat in that respect.

If you can afford to hire one, you'll generally get one with amenities included.

It's the cheap barely warrantable hand me down tourist vans on trademe and the known tourist on-seller hot spots that are normally taken up and cruising around. They can buy one for a few months for a couple of hundered. Vs rending one for a hundy a day. And you get the added bonus of leftover cooking and sleeping gear the departing users can't take with!

Remember all the abandoned vans around the countryside and airports that become an issue (though only briefly reported on when the rental companies were affected and needed recovery) when the repatriation flights were occurring en-masse.

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#2607015 19-Nov-2020 16:00

Oblivian:

If you can afford to hire one, you'll generally get one with amenities included.

It's the cheap barely warrantable hand me down tourist vans on trademe and the known tourist on-seller hot spots that are normally taken up and cruising around. They can buy one for a few months for a couple of hundered. Vs rending one for a hundy a day. And you get the added bonus of leftover cooking and sleeping gear the departing users can't take with!

If the only campervan choice is a high-end, full facilities one, many more will choose station wagons and tents.

mudguard

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#2607016 19-Nov-2020 16:04

MikeB4:

Last year we were travelling over the Napier -Taupo highway, we stopped at the falls lookout got out and the place stunk like an uncleaned public toilet after new years eve. There toilet paper everywhere and the stench was disgusting. We got back in the car after a couple of minutes and moved on. We then stopped at the rest area further along by the river and it was the same story. Where do these folk get the idea that this behaviour is acceptable.

On the Kapiti coast we have found similar literally meters from toilet blocks ?????

Another thing if a rubbish bin is full take rubbish with you until you can dispose of it in an adult manner pilling it up on the ground around the bin is plain stupid and antisocial.

Yeah unfortunately that's what I come across. Especially around Taupo, West Coast of the South Island. Certain places I won't stop. I know it sounds NIMBY but it's nice stopping somewhere on a drive, being the only person there while you sip from a thermos. Not pulling over at a mobile camp.

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#2607167 19-Nov-2020 17:20

Oblivian:

They have left a gaping hole in the story.

The majority of the campers in question for the many previous pictures of clogged up camps. Weren't/Aren't hired. Restricting Hire, won't to squat in that respect.

If you can afford to hire one, you'll generally get one with amenities included.

It's the cheap barely warrantable hand me down tourist vans on trademe and the known tourist on-seller hot spots that are normally taken up and cruising around. They can buy one for a few months for a couple of hundered. Vs rending one for a hundy a day. And you get the added bonus of leftover cooking and sleeping gear the departing users can't take with!

Remember all the abandoned vans around the countryside and airports that become an issue (though only briefly reported on when the rental companies were affected and needed recovery) when the repatriation flights were occurring en-masse.

There are numerous companies that will cheaply rent you a van with a bed (no self containment cert), or a van with the bare minimum for a freedom camping cert. Wicked Campers is one of the better known brands. Currently they are advertising $24.50 a day (and if you hire for two months, you can get the third month for $200).

The rental market isn't exclusively big Britz and Maui campervans.

But yes, you are correct chasing the rental companies isn't the way to solve this issue. Lots of backpacker vans are brought by the backpackers and sold in the last week of two of their stay. When I went to the car fair at ellerslie a few years back there were 50 odd backpackers trying to sell their vans / wagons, very keen to show off the collection of pots and pans that came with the vehicles.

Should note that there are companies that will sell small vans to backpackers with a guaranteed buyback and some kind of mechanical warranty, so dodging "renting" the van is pritty easy.

As a country we need to call time on foreign tourists camping for free on roadsides or at council facilities. The impact of them staying at traditional backpackers, or in private or DOC campsites is much lower on the NZ public. The type of vehicle is not important if they are staying in campgrounds or backpackers with facilities.

But it would be nice if we kept that ability for NZ residents to camp in public (outside of major urban areas) in true self contained vehicles. (with toilets & showers that are actually convenient to use).

Not sure quite what to do with the likes of the big Maui vans. Tourists paying $300 - $600 a day to rent them are worth a lot of money to NZ. Likely will spend big bucks at attractions & restaurants too. Such vehicles can camp in public with minimal impact (other than visual), but requiring them to stay in campgrounds is unlikely to be a deal breaker for the renters.

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Oblivian

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#2607178 19-Nov-2020 17:58

Should note that there are companies that will sell small vans to backpackers with a guaranteed buyback and some kind of mechanical warranty, so dodging "renting" the van is pritty easy.

The linkdrops I put in are to a few of those very companies, hosted on one of numerous 'cheap travel vehicle' pages advertising the buybacks and so forth.

sigod

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#2608077 21-Nov-2020 19:29

What I don't understand is why there are so many vans with the self-contained stickers on them still driving around Queenstown when the borders are apparently closed?

Are they people who have stayed here since the lock-down? If so, do they live in them permanently or just have them for the weekends? Do they work? How do they get money for food if they can't get assistance?

I know Queenstown runs on immigrant labour, are they just immigrants or tourists without accomodation? They obviously had enough money to get here, buy a van and pay for fuel.

Are they just New Zealand citizens or permanent residents touring the country in beat up old vans? They don't seem to be locals.

Do they really have toilets in the vans?

MikeAqua

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#2609289 23-Nov-2020 17:09

sigod:

Do they really have toilets in the vans?

The minimum requirement is a portaloo (with 12L waste storage per person) and portable containers of water (12L per person). Portaloos are generally 20L or less, so a passenger vehicle with one is probably only certifiable for 1 person. But most/many have two occupants.

They are also supposed to have a sink, but this can be a simple portable sink (running water isn't required).

In Nelson freedom-campers were allowed to overnight in the main carpark. You would see regularly see grey water being discharged onto the ground.

Mike

sigod

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#2609449 23-Nov-2020 20:26

From the Freedom Camping link on https://www.govt.nz/browse/recreation-and-the-environment/freedom-camping/

According to New Zealand Standard Self Containment of Motor Caravans and Caravans

https://www.standards.govt.nz/assets/Publication-files/NZS5465-2001+A1A2.pdf

"6.3 Toilets
All toilet systems shall provide sufficient waste holding capacity for the occupants of the motor caravan
or caravan for a minimum of three days. The waste holding capacity shall be the net capacity after
deducting the initial charge, or the internal flushing water. The minimum capacity required per person,
per day, shall be one litre."

and

"6.5 Self composting toilets
Self composting toilets shall comply with the sanitary requirements of the NZBC"

I'm not sure which part of the building code though.

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