Whenuapai airport - Domestic flights

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Technofreak

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#2313897 10-Sep-2019 07:32

GV27:

I'm still not sold, sorry. I can't understand how the business case for a small airport with a limited number of flights, none of which can be transfers, no freight capacity, minimal extra jobs and into one of Auckland's fastest-developing greenfield residential areas with no public transport connections in any direction can possibly stack up.

You've just described every regional airport in New Zealand, which is exactly how I see Whenuapai in this proposal.

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#2313901 10-Sep-2019 07:44

Technofreak:

GV27:

I'm still not sold, sorry. I can't understand how the business case for a small airport with a limited number of flights, none of which can be transfers, no freight capacity, minimal extra jobs and into one of Auckland's fastest-developing greenfield residential areas with no public transport connections in any direction can possibly stack up.

You've just described every regional airport in New Zealand, which is exactly how I see Whenuapai in this proposal.

Not sure the logic is transferable or that it's apples and apples. Those other airports are a necessity to service regional centres where there's no other nearby airport and they've been there for decades. The locals wholeheartedly support them. This proposal is for a non-essential second airport in a major metropolis for an area where there will be very little social support.

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#2314040 10-Sep-2019 09:54

Technofreak:

GV27:

I'm still not sold, sorry. I can't understand how the business case for a small airport with a limited number of flights, none of which can be transfers, no freight capacity, minimal extra jobs and into one of Auckland's fastest-developing greenfield residential areas with no public transport connections in any direction can possibly stack up.

You've just described every regional airport in New Zealand, which is exactly how I see Whenuapai in this proposal.

I still don't see how you can possibly see a second airport in a city of 1.4M people as comparable to a regional airport (usually the sole facility of its type and often multi-use) in a small to medium sized town or city.

You're seeing what you want to see and not what actually IS...you seem blinded by your rabid desire to have an airport where one is not needed/wanted/viable.

To be absolutely clear: Whenuapai/North Shore/West Auckland is NOT a region worthy of regional flights of their own...it's a geographic area within Auckland - it DOES NOT even resemble Tauranga, Hamilton or Dunedin.

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Technofreak

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#2314571 10-Sep-2019 21:17

Handsomedan:

I still don't see how you can possibly see a second airport in a city of 1.4M people as comparable to a regional airport (usually the sole facility of its type and often multi-use) in a small to medium sized town or city.

You're seeing what you want to see and not what actually IS...you seem blinded by your rabid desire to have an airport where one is not needed/wanted/viable.

To be absolutely clear: Whenuapai/North Shore/West Auckland is NOT a region worthy of regional flights of their own...it's a geographic area within Auckland - it DOES NOT even resemble Tauranga, Hamilton or Dunedin.

I have no rabid desire to have domestic flights going to Whenuapai. As to whether it's needed/wanted/viable that's another matter. I think some on here are blinded by their passion not not have an airport in their neighbourhood.

I happen to think the idea has merit and could work. Let me explain my thinking.

Whether or not Christopher Luxon is "flying a kite" with respect to Auckland Airport landing charges remains to be seen.

For a moment let's assume Mr Luxon's only reason for making noises about domestic flights to Whenuapai was to get Auckland Airport to sit up and take notice. For this to to have any chance of success the idea has to have some merit, otherwise he will look very silly. I rather suspect Christopher Luxon is smart enough not to make a suggestion that doesn't have some merit and some chance of success.

Now lets look at some places places that have regular scheduled airline services, starting with Kapiti Coast Airport.

In some ways Kapiti is not too dissimilar to Whenuapai. People can either travel to Wellington to fly from there or they can fly from Kapiti. I'd say the drive times at peak hours are probably similar for the drive time from the North Shore area to Auckland Airport.

I know when I was based at Auckland Airport fellow pilots from the North Shore area took longer to get to work than I did travelling from Hamilton. Kapiti also has arguable much better public transport to Wellington Airport than there is in Auckland making the journey to Wellington easier and more attractive than an equivalent public transport trip from the Shore to Auckland airport.

Kapiti Coast has a population of around 50,000 with another competing airport not too far away and it supports at least two return flights to Auckland each day.

Whanganui district which has another airport within a 45 minute drive has a population of under 50,000 and supports three return flights to Auckland per day.

Timaru district has a population of under 50,000 and supports two return flights per day to Wellington

Taupo district has a population of under 40,000 and supports two return flights per day to Auckland plus Sounds Air also fly a much smaller aircraft three times a day to Wellington.

Whakatane district has a population of under 35,000 and supports three return flights per day to Auckland.

Looking at those 5 destinations that's 24 flights per day for a combined population of under 225,000.

The North Shore/West Auckland area has a population of about 454,000 which is a bit over 2 times the population of the 5 centres I have listed. Even it you factor the North Shore/West Auckland by 50% don't you think 20 flights a day to centres like Wellington and Christchurch and large regional centres is remotely viable? You don't have to agree it's a good idea but I fail to see how you couldn't accept it might just work.

It doesn't bother me either way whether there are domestic flights to Whenuapai, I really don't care. However I do think the idea has merit and the numbers suggest to me it could be made to work.

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boosacnoodle

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#2314578 10-Sep-2019 21:36

I don't see how this would really be much different to the Kapiti services that were offered until reasonably recently. Given that it's roughly an hour from Kapiti to Palmerston North or Wellington, with the difference being that Whenuapai would have significantly more people nearby than Kapiti.

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#2314655 11-Sep-2019 07:21

Technofreak:

The North Shore/West Auckland area has a population of about 454,000 which is a bit over 2 times the population of the 5 centres I have listed. Even it you factor the North Shore/West Auckland by 50% don't you think 20 flights a day to centres like Wellington and Christchurch and large regional centres is remotely viable? You don't have to agree it's a good idea but I fail to see how you couldn't accept it might just work.

It's not like those areas are totally cut off form any airport access whatsoever. There's a huge amount of people who use SH16 and Waterview to get to SH20 and South Auckland. The real question is "Are those people going to be better off with an airport in their backyards, in addition to all the extra people and housing they're taking on (because areas like the North Shore won't intensify) after dealing with all that traffic each and every day for the only perceptible trade-off being there's an airport 20 mins away instead of 40 mins away?"

I'm willing to answer for many, the answer is going to be "No" and possibly also "sod off".

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#2314659 11-Sep-2019 07:30

boosacnoodle:

I don't see how this would really be much different to the Kapiti services that were offered until reasonably recently. Given that it's roughly an hour from Kapiti to Palmerston North or Wellington, with the difference being that Whenuapai would have significantly more people nearby than Kapiti.

But more people is what allows services to be work, and that's the key difference between both Whenuapai and Kapiti. I too think the Whenuapai option is something that would work, but I think there is zero chance of it ever happening.

One of the problems with Kapiti is that it could never deliver the cost benefits of a jet aircraft. Many people complained at the cost vs flying from Wellington because they don't understand the operating costs of smaller aircraft, and therefore they just ended up flying from Wellington on cheaper flights. Whenuapai would theoretically see pricing that would be the same or cheaper than existing Auckland services.

Even Air Chathams have struggled at Kapiti, I haven't looked at how many weekly flights they're operating now but they cut back their services earlier in the year simply because there wasn't the demand.

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#2316461 12-Sep-2019 11:47

I live in Totara Road, behind the airport towards the Waitemata and I think it's a great idea!! One has to remember that when the new sub divisions were being built, people bought knowing full well that the airport was here, and had been for a very long time.

It amazes me that a lot of people, who don't even live near the airport, think they have the right to decide that Air New Zealand shouldn't operate from Whenuapai. Such arguments are thrown up that Auckland airport is now very much accessible because of the Waterview tunnel and so on haven't obviously been in the traffic queues through the Royal Rd underbridge or joined city bound traffic on SH16 from Kumeu.

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