Virgin Australia 737 Window Exit Seats all empty...

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FireEngine

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#236069 16-May-2018 18:41

Partly full flight to Brisbane this morning, noticed ALL the window exit seats were empty. No that will likely be because Virgin Australia charge extra for the extra legroom...

...so if we ditch in the Tasman who opens the window seats? I know there are FAA regs worldwide that able-bodied peeps only must sit they as they are an emergency exit but surely the overwhelming requirement is for there to be someone to open the exit in the event its needed???

Anyone else seen similar?

Regards FireEngine

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#2017058 16-May-2018 18:50

Odds are, the first person there is pretty able bodied.

FireEngine

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#2017081 16-May-2018 19:09

Lol - emergency exit races

Regards FireEngine

hairy1

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#2017085 16-May-2018 19:16

They are not required to be a manned exit.

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Bung

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#2017150 16-May-2018 20:16

How do those seats relate to the position the woman that died after the decompression was sitting in?

Linux

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#2017153 16-May-2018 20:21

Bung: How do those seats relate to the position the woman that died after the decompression was sitting in?

Zero as any window could of failed in the plane even the pilots windows can and has happened even the other day over China

John

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#2017247 16-May-2018 23:16

Linux:

Bung: How do those seats relate to the position the woman that died after the decompression was sitting in?

Zero as any window could of failed in the plane even the pilots windows can and has happened even the other day over China

John

In that case I think the window failed because the engine partially disintegrated and parts of the engine flew out and hit the window. It was 4 rows back from the over wing exit. This particular scenario is unlikely to happen to windows that are forward of the engine, unless the plane is travelling backwards!

Senecio

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#2017270 17-May-2018 04:44

Flying in Europe it was often a requirement to have someone sittng in the exit rows. I often selected the row behind and if no one had paid for the upgraded leg room the crew would ask if was confident to operated the door and I’d end with the whole row to myself on less full flights.

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FireEngine

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#2017392 17-May-2018 09:30

Senecio: Flying in Europe it was often a requirement to have someone sittng in the exit rows. I often selected the row behind and if no one had paid for the upgraded leg room the crew would ask if was confident to operated the door and I’d end with the whole row to myself on less full flights.

I'm finding some sources saying the window exits are necessary to achieve the 90secs certification for emergency exiting, seems odd then that you don't have to have anyone by them to open them quickly...

Regards FireEngine

MikeAqua

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#2017419 17-May-2018 09:55

I frequently see people in exits row that don't look like they would be physically able to assist in an emergency - due to size, mobility limitations or obvious injuries.

Late last year shortly after surgery I was assigned an exit row seat. When I got to the koru lounge I advised I wasn't physically able to assist in an emergency. "No problem sir, I'll move you to another row".

Problem solved I thought. I scanned by boarding pass at the kiosk without issue. Then when I got to the plane I realised I had been moved to another exit row seat and every seat was full.

Mike

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#2017423 17-May-2018 10:01

FireEngine:

...so if we ditch in the Tasman who opens the window seats? I know there are FAA regs worldwide that able-bodied peeps only must sit they as they are an emergency exit...

Just a point, FAA regs only apply to aircraft flying in US territory. I guess that NZ CAA and CASA regs would apply to Tasman flights. With perhaps some kind of ICAO input?

FireEngine

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#2017464 17-May-2018 10:27

frankv:

FireEngine:

...so if we ditch in the Tasman who opens the window seats? I know there are FAA regs worldwide that able-bodied peeps only must sit they as they are an emergency exit...

Just a point, FAA regs only apply to aircraft flying in US territory. I guess that NZ CAA and CASA regs would apply to Tasman flights. With perhaps some kind of ICAO input?

True - and I probably knew that if I had thought about it, interestingly from the NZ CAA website:

https://www.caa.govt.nz/passengers/cabin-safety-for-passengers/

Seats by Emergency Exits

Some passengers may not be permitted to sit in a seat row next to an emergency exit. This is to ensure that if the emergency exit is needed, the exit can be opened and the aircraft evacuated as quickly as possible.

The following passengers are among those who should not be allocated, or directed to, seats by emergency exits:

passengers with physical or mental impairment or disability to the extent that they would have difficulty in moving quickly if asked to do so;
passengers who have significant sight or hearing impairment to the extent that it might be difficult for them to respond to instructions quickly;
passengers who, because of age, sickness or ill health, have difficulty in moving quickly and or have difficulty in responding to instructions;
passengers who, because of physical size, have difficulty in moving quickly;
children (whether accompanied or not) and infants;
passengers travelling with assistance dogs."

Hard to equate this section of the rules (which aim to "This is to ensure that if the emergency exit is needed, the exit can be opened and the aircraft evacuated as quickly as possible."), with an airline policy to charge extra for those seats and if necessary have no-one sitting in them...

Regards FireEngine

scottjpalmer

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#2017515 17-May-2018 11:30

FireEngine: I'm finding some sources saying the window exits are necessary to achieve the 90secs certification for emergency exiting, seems odd then that you don't have to have anyone by them to open them quickly..

Let's just say @hairy1 is very well qualified to provide the advice he did above

FireEngine

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#2017538 17-May-2018 11:43

scottjpalmer:
FireEngine: I'm finding some sources saying the window exits are necessary to achieve the 90secs certification for emergency exiting, seems odd then that you don't have to have anyone by them to open them quickly..

Let's just say @hairy1 is very well qualified to provide the advice he did above

That I don't doubt and haven't questioned. Still seems daft to have an exit unless you have someone sat by it to enable its use - after all there is no safety benefit to <not> having the exit manned. Secondarily the tray tables were down on those rows, I'm not sure if on the takeoff roll but they were definitely down during flight and landing.

Of course this doesn't matter...until it matters

Regards FireEngine

Handsomedan

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#2017582 17-May-2018 12:15

Last time I flew Trans-Tasman on Virgin all of the seats thtat were designated Economy X (basically all the seats in good spots or with decent legroom) were empty. This included all of the emergency exit rows.

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hairy1

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#2017601 17-May-2018 12:38

FireEngine:

frankv:

FireEngine:

...so if we ditch in the Tasman who opens the window seats? I know there are FAA regs worldwide that able-bodied peeps only must sit they as they are an emergency exit...

Just a point, FAA regs only apply to aircraft flying in US territory. I guess that NZ CAA and CASA regs would apply to Tasman flights. With perhaps some kind of ICAO input?

True - and I probably knew that if I had thought about it, interestingly from the NZ CAA website:

https://www.caa.govt.nz/passengers/cabin-safety-for-passengers/

"

Seats by Emergency Exits

Some passengers may not be permitted to sit in a seat row next to an emergency exit. This is to ensure that if the emergency exit is needed, the exit can be opened and the aircraft evacuated as quickly as possible.

The following passengers are among those who should not be allocated, or directed to, seats by emergency exits:

passengers with physical or mental impairment or disability to the extent that they would have difficulty in moving quickly if asked to do so;
passengers who have significant sight or hearing impairment to the extent that it might be difficult for them to respond to instructions quickly;
passengers who, because of age, sickness or ill health, have difficulty in moving quickly and or have difficulty in responding to instructions;
passengers who, because of physical size, have difficulty in moving quickly;
children (whether accompanied or not) and infants;
passengers travelling with assistance dogs."

Hard to equate this section of the rules (which aim to "This is to ensure that if the emergency exit is needed, the exit can be opened and the aircraft evacuated as quickly as possible."), with an airline policy to charge extra for those seats and if necessary have no-one sitting in them...

The aircraft itself is certified by the FAA and/or EASA for evacuations. If you are interested you can search for "Emergency Evacuation Test" on Youtube.

Overlaying that is an Airlines Operating Certificate (AOC) and their Exposition (how they will operate within the rules). The aviation rules are laid down by each country. Virgin operate on an Australian AOC so the CASA rules apply. The New Zealand CAA rules you quote above don't apply to Virgin (although without looking are probably the same).

The rules around the overwing exits focus on the ability for anyone to open these exits easily in an emergency. The 737-800 exit is pretty cool as it is hinged and pops up out of the way so that the passengers don't have to lift the exit out of the way.

If you are really keen on further reading there is some good information from the FAA on their safety review they completed of emergency exits in 2000 here:

https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS0001.pdf

Cheers, Matt.

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

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