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floydbloke

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#312072 14-Mar-2024 15:29
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Mrs Floyd and I are scheduled to fly to Vancouver in June on NZ24.

 

In good geeky fashion I’ve been tracking this flight for the last few months and it appears to be cancelled at a frequency of once every 20-25 trips, so close to 5%.  Unsure of the reasons but they don’t appear to be environmental as there are other flights departing and arriving at that time, so I’m guessing it’s either shortage of planes or crews or mechanical.  (Is there any way of finding out?)

 

My question is what happens to get those passengers to Vancouver in a timely fashion?  There is just the one Air NZ flight on that route per day and one would assume there isn’t room on the next day’s flight to fit all the ones from that day’s cancellation.
Would they route them via the US?  This would then mean non-US passport holders (the majority) would need to quickly apply for an ESTA and hope it goes through right? Or via Aus on some other airlines perhaps.  Or are they just spread over the next few NZ24 flights until the backlog is clear, potentially shortening people’s holidays.

 

Our starting port will actually be WLG so if the cancellation is announced before we leave there I guess we probably won't even be allowed to board our domestic flight?

 

And would you still be guaranteed to fly in the same class that you booked in (Prem Ec. In our case) on your re-scheduled flight or get bumped to a lower class and told to suck it up?

 

This could apply to numerous other destinations as well of course.

 


Thoughts? Experiences?
(Am I being too paranoid? …. Probably. 😀)





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sen8or
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  #3206363 14-Mar-2024 15:42
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We had a trip last year disrupted by international flight cancellation, fortunately it was just the first leg and largely inconsequential to the overall holiday, but still painful none the less.

 

For us, cancellation happened whilst waiting at the gate (United Airlines to San Fran), we even had to go back through immigration as an arriving passenger even though we didn't leave the terminal. We were put on a flight the next day at the same time (so arrived a full day late). As it was a plane fault, United put everyone up in accommodation and arranged transport to/from the hotel and provided a $30 dinner voucher and breakfast. Our flight still arrived in time for us to catch the connecting flight from SF to Las Vegas, simply meant we missed out on touring SF. Travel Insurance kicked in and we got some back. 

 

In regards to seating, no idea sorry. I suspect they'd try and get you in the same class, but if it was downgrade or don't go, I'd downgrade and look for compensation later.

 

 

 

Are you on a continuous journey? (All booked / paid for on 1 ticket?)

 

If you are on a continuous journey, its the airlines responsibility to get you to your destination. If a connecting flight arrives late and you miss the connection, its their responsibility to get you to the next destination. If you have booked and paid for separate legs (choosing different airlines based on price or schedule, or you have an extended stop over more than a day), its YOUR responsibility to get to the next destination. The original airline has no requirement beyond getting you to the end of its journey.

 

Whether you can jump on your flight from WLG to AKL(?) will depend entirely on how its ticketed (as above). 




floydbloke

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  #3206368 14-Mar-2024 15:58
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sen8or:

 

...

 

Are you on a continuous journey? (All booked / paid for on 1 ticket?)

 

...

 

 

One ticket.  WLG-AKL scheduled at 16:45, AKL-YVR scheduled at 20:05.

 

Some of the AKL-YVR cancellation notices have shown up as early as 6am which prompted my question of being allowed to board the first leg if the airline already know the connecting flight won't go as scheduled.





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  #3206376 14-Mar-2024 16:35
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floydbloke:

 

Some of the AKL-YVR cancellation notices have shown up as early as 6am which prompted my question of being allowed to board the first leg if the airline already know the connecting flight won't go as scheduled.

 

 

They will fly you to Auckland and put you up in a hotel there

 

I would personally more time between WLG-AKL and AKL-YVR that connect while not tight doesn't allow for any flexiblity if delayed

 

 





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floydbloke

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  #3206380 14-Mar-2024 16:46
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nztim:

 

...

 

They will fly you to Auckland and put you up in a hotel there

 

I would personally more time between WLG-AKL and AKL-YVR that connect while not tight doesn't allow for any flexiblity if delayed

 

 

 

 

We had originally booked economy seats and were due to depart WLG at 16:00 to give that buffer.  We decided to upgrade to Premium during their January sale and the bloke on the phone said he couldn't book us on that, had to be the 16:45 so I said OK.  Airfares are a black art.





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NPCtom
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  #3206386 14-Mar-2024 17:10
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They could put you onto Air Canada 40?






floydbloke

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  #3206397 14-Mar-2024 17:44
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NPCtom:

 

They could put you onto Air Canada 40?

 

 

Appears not to be an option after the end of March.





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Jase2985
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  #3206400 14-Mar-2024 18:16
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I went Victoria (YYJ) to Vancouver (YVR) then YVR to AKL. The plane out of YVR was damaged, so we had to stay in Vancouver overnight while they got a new aircraft. It was an hour queue to get our hotel booking from the airline, 30 mins for the shuttle, then 30 mins to check in at the hotel. 

 

They gave us each an individual room, 2 meal vouchers, one for dinner then one for breakfast. We then had to get the shuttle back to the airport and go through a 45-minute queue to check in again. Made for a couple of really long days.

 

The only good thing to come from it was half the people on the plane had been moved to a Qantas flight direct to Australia rather than via Auckland so the flight was less full. I managed to get a free upgrade to a skycouch row instead of being at the back of the plane with the rest of my colleges. 


frankv
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  #3206572 15-Mar-2024 11:05
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floydbloke:

 

In good geeky fashion I’ve been tracking this flight for the last few months and it appears to be cancelled at a frequency of once every 20-25 trips, so close to 5%.  Unsure of the reasons but they don’t appear to be environmental as there are other flights departing and arriving at that time, so I’m guessing it’s either shortage of planes or crews or mechanical.  (Is there any way of finding out?)

 

 

This has become a sad reality of aviation, and it has certainly spread to AirNZ.

 

Hardly ever now do I make a booking and not get some change due to "operational" reasons. Operational can be a cloak for any number of actual reasons, from mechanical to scheduling to "we'd rather have everyone jammed onto the next flight than send two planes that are half full". Also, the best time to (re-)schedule a flight is just before a competitor's flight. On one occasion, we got the offer you can't refuse to change to a flight the next day, only to see AirNZ advertising seats on our original flight at a considerably higher price than we had paid.

 

 


frankv
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  #3206579 15-Mar-2024 11:27
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Jase2985:

 

I went Victoria (YYJ) to Vancouver (YVR) then YVR to AKL. The plane out of YVR was damaged, so we had to stay in Vancouver overnight while they got a new aircraft. It was an hour queue to get our hotel booking from the airline, 30 mins for the shuttle, then 30 mins to check in at the hotel. 

 

They gave us each an individual room, 2 meal vouchers, one for dinner then one for breakfast. We then had to get the shuttle back to the airport and go through a 45-minute queue to check in again. Made for a couple of really long days.

 

The only good thing to come from it was half the people on the plane had been moved to a Qantas flight direct to Australia rather than via Auckland so the flight was less full. I managed to get a free upgrade to a skycouch row instead of being at the back of the plane with the rest of my colleges. 

 

 

Similar experience with AirNZ Houston to Auckland... our plane had landed at Austin instead of Houston due to weather. Only 30 minutes before scheduled departure did we get told, then it was an hour to get our luggage back, an hour to get a hotel room, waited another hour to get a shuttle, eventually called a cab (which AirNZ said at the time they would pay for and subsequently refused). We ended up getting to bed well after 1am. Next morning, AirNZ told us they hadn't booked us onto the flight that day, but the next day's flight. And we had to pay for the extra night in the hotel. Of course, the plane we got on was chocka. :(

 

If they'd been even slightly on the ball, they could have bussed everyone to Austin (presumably they had bussed the passengers from that flight to Houston) and left on time from there.

 

 


nova
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  #3206581 15-Mar-2024 11:36
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To the OP if you were really worried about going via the US at the last minute you could get an ESTA ahead of time - you don't need confirmed travel plans to apply for this, so it might be worth the US $21 as insurance and it is good for 2 years.

 

Otherwise it is worth noting that if the flight is cancelled for operational reasons you can hit the airline up for all reasonable out of pocket expenses, if it is a weather related problem then you have to pay yourself / claim on travel insurance.


sen8or
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  #3206582 15-Mar-2024 11:39
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Air travel is very sketchy international. We're booked CHC/AKL/Houston in mid April with a 1 day layover Houston to Ft Lauderdale with a 1 day layover for a cruise sailing out of Ft Lauderdale. So 2 days "up our sleeve" so to speak, but even that seems on the tight side of things for my comfort


 
 
 

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Zeon
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  #3206594 15-Mar-2024 12:01
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Air New Zealand is probably one of the least reliable airlines I know of. The number of delays and cancellations is so high compared to even low cost carriers. TBH the only reason I use them is:

 

1) I get airpoints from credit card (like 4 figures $$ wise per month)
2) They are the only airline on a route

 

Used a lot of low cost carriers around Europe, North America and Asia with less issues than Air NZ.....

 

Another trick with AirNZ on North America routes is to buy tickets with their codeshare airlines. Often the same route can be $100 less if you buy with say United Airlines for exactly the same flight.





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Handle9
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  #3206595 15-Mar-2024 12:04
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sen8or:

Air travel is very sketchy international. We're booked CHC/AKL/Houston in mid April with a 1 day layover Houston to Ft Lauderdale with a 1 day layover for a cruise sailing out of Ft Lauderdale. So 2 days "up our sleeve" so to speak, but even that seems on the tight side of things for my comfort



It’s not really. I travel from the Middle East to Europe every couple of months. I haven’t had any flights cancelled in the last two years.

Some markets, including the US, have more problems but much of global aviation is running well.

Saying that I’m currently sitting in Sydney waiting for a delayed connection to Queenstown so YMMV.

pdh

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  #3206680 15-Mar-2024 13:51
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Question for OP:

 

Did you also track the occupancy for those cancelled flights ?

 

If some of them were half-empty - it'd likely be much more economic to carry passengers with tomorrow's also half-empty load.

 

If so, that 5% ratio of 'bad' flights might drop considerably during our winter months (northern summer).
As I'm assuming that occupancy will increase during the northern summer. 

 

Perhaps I've been exceptionally lucky - I've had one flight cancelled (or seriously delayed) since a flight out of Boston (snow) in Jan 1994.
Admittedly that's only 100-odd flights.

 

 


floydbloke

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  #3206687 15-Mar-2024 14:17
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pdh:

 

...

 

Did you also track the occupancy for those cancelled flights ?

 

If some of them were half-empty - it'd likely be much more economic to carry passengers with tomorrow's also half-empty load.

 

If so, that 5% ratio of 'bad' flights might drop considerably during our winter months (northern summer).
As I'm assuming that occupancy will increase during the northern summer. 

 

...

 

 

 

 

Yeah the occupancy factor did cross my mind.  I don't know how to find that level of detail so no, I didn't track that.  (I know there is some website/app where you can glean that info but the cursory look I gave it seems to need a paid subscription that I couldn't justify.)

 

Air Canada don't appear to be to be flying AKL-YVR after March so I figure that would shift some demand to Air NZ.

 

Air NZ use B787-9 on that route and I saw the other day there is a worldwide shortage of the RR Trent 1000 engines, meaning their maintenance schedule gets messed up which could have contribute to historical cancellation.  They will stop flying NZ26 to Chicago from the end of this month to mitigate this somewhat.

 

On  a side-note, has the in-flight wifi roll-out to the Air NZ B787 fleet been completed?





Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.


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