Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3242733 30-May-2024 15:08

SaltyNZ:

Certainly not taking any of the squeeze off us. In fact, the small tax cut will be far more than offset by the fact our daughter won't get fees free for her first year of university.

Will it? Student loans are still interest-free and still not repayable while studying. You're not suddenly forced to come up with the lump-sum up-front.

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#3242734 30-May-2024 15:12

GV27:

SaltyNZ:

Certainly not taking any of the squeeze off us. In fact, the small tax cut will be far more than offset by the fact our daughter won't get fees free for her first year of university.

Will it? Student loans are still interest-free and still not repayable while studying. You're not suddenly forced to come up with the lump-sum up-front.

The student loan is still going to be 25% bigger than it would have been otherwise.

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#3242735 30-May-2024 15:15

sir1963:

Technofreak:

In the six years from 2017 to 2023 the number of bureaucrats increased from ¬47,000 to ¬65,500 an increase of nearly 20,000 or close to 40%. It pretty hard not to imagine that there's some fat that can be cut.

It what the tax payers wanted...accountability, so now you have it, and it costs.
people "near the coal face" no longer have the ability to make decisions, nor trusted to do so, so in come more senior management, more accountants, more business managers

I don't buy the "accountability" argument. It doesn't take that level of staffing increase to provide effective oversight/accountability. However I agree, in came the managers ...... by the truckload.

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#3242741 30-May-2024 15:20

SaltyNZ:

sir1963:

Huge number of drop outs in the 1st year, wasted money.

And I'm personally quite happy for that "waste" because in exchange for that, poor kids who absolutely could not afford to risk going to university only to fail and waste all that precious money got the opportunity to try. Personally I don't think it should be fees free first year - I think it should be free full stop. (And sure, you can make next year's tuition conditional on adequate achievement in the year prior, that's completely sensible).

Well then that is your "fat in the system" that you have to accept.

Tertiary education is grossly underfunded already, you are talking hundreds of billions because of student loans for accommodation etc etc etc.

Show me the money.

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#3242742 30-May-2024 15:21

sir1963:

Show me the money.

That landlord over there has it -->

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Handle9

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#3242746 30-May-2024 15:24

SaltyNZ:

sir1963:

Show me the money.

That landlord over there has it -->

Ah the irony....

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#3242749 30-May-2024 15:45

SaltyNZ:

The student loan is still going to be 25% bigger than it would have been otherwise.

isin't it last year free now, so with no interest the cost should be the same regardless? Unless the first year costs more than the last. Been many years since I had a student loan (none free)

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#3242754 30-May-2024 16:01

JPNZ:

SaltyNZ:

The student loan is still going to be 25% bigger than it would have been otherwise.

isin't it last year free now, so with no interest the cost should be the same regardless? Unless the first year costs more than the last. Been many years since I had a student loan (none free)

Maybe; the only thing they actually said in the budget speech was removing fees free first year. They did not say they were adding fees free final year from what I heard. Disclaimer - I had it on in the background while working so it remains possible I heard them cancel fees free first year but somehow missed that they were adding final year.

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#3242755 30-May-2024 16:04

SaltyNZ:

Maybe; the only thing they actually said in the budget speech was removing fees free first year. They did not say they were adding fees free final year from what I heard. Disclaimer - I had it on in the background while working so it remains possible I heard them cancel fees free first year but somehow missed that they were adding final year.

"Free study for first-year tertiary students has been scrapped, Tertiary Education Minister Penny Simmonds has announced, with fees-free instead shifted to the final year.

The first-year scheme will close to new entrants at the end of the year. "Learners entering their final year of study from January 2025 will be eligible, and payment will be made following completion of their study programme," according to the Government.

The first payments under the new system will be made to learners after January 1, 2026."

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/05/30/budget-2024-major-change-coming-to-fees-free-tertiary-scheme/

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invisibleman18

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#3242757 30-May-2024 16:08

She definitely said in the speech they were making the final year free instead.

sir1963

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#3242758 30-May-2024 16:08

SaltyNZ:

sir1963:

Show me the money.

That landlord over there has it -->

No they don't.

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#3242762 30-May-2024 16:16

invisibleman18:
She definitely said in the speech they were making the final year free instead.

Thank you, I stand corrected.

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#3242787 30-May-2024 18:06

Handle9:
tdgeek:

GV27:

As for 'cuts to finance a vote' - what about the spending that got us into this mess in the first place?

Which mess? Inflation etc etc? There were two issues that caused that here and everywhere irregardless of what party/regime was in power, all of which is quietly swept under the carpet

New Zealand is in a structural deficit. For those that don’t know that’s when you borrow to pay for the operating account and have no way back to surpluses. Basically it’s putting the groceries on the mortgage.

That mess.

Or selling the table for this weeks groceries. How long has that been going on???

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#3242789 30-May-2024 18:10

sir1963:

tdgeek:

Simplistically, analogise to a a home or business

Assess all expenses and CAPEX What can we drop. What can we trim

Assess all income, for a home that is salary, for business that is selling prices, for Government that is taxes

Make the numbers A = B

They do by stopping preventative maintenance , cutting back services without the knowledge of why they are there in the first place.

Just remember, anything and everything that goes wrong then becomes the tax payers cost.

Agree. My initial point was outlining that homes, businesses, Governments have the same role. Incomings vs outgoings. Not hard. The issues with Governments is they cannot do that, to do that, they need votes, and those votes are garnered by promises of the Country will be Great Again.

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#3242790 30-May-2024 18:11

Technofreak:

tdgeek:

GV27:

All the current government has done is exactly what Robertson did in the lead-up to the 2023 election, which is instruct departments to find cuts they could make. I don't recall the same level of existential angst over that. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me that it was 'prudent and smart stewardship' when he did it. But it's extremely bad now.

Cuts by anyone to make things more cost effective is fine, but we have cuts on top of cuts, and looking at what is cut you have to ask is it because its still wasteful spending or is to to finance a vote?

In the six years from 2017 to 2023 the number of bureaucrats increased from ¬47,000 to ¬65,500 an increase of nearly 20,000 or close to 40%. It pretty hard not to imagine that there's some fat that can be cut.

In that case cut the fat and the populous has the same services they have now. Lets see how that plays out

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