Our new coalition government.

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473 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2340405 18-Oct-2019 23:06

networkn:

Mahon:

National actually legislated for the tax changes when they were in Government. The bigger question is why did this current government legislate them away as soon as they got elected?

Because they wanted to spend the money elsewhere, which I actually agreed with. We don't really need tax cuts per se, I feel the money should be spent elsewhere. Increasing the brackets wouldn't be a bad idea.

The problem is, in my view, that despite the money that was spent, the wellness budget etc, there aren't really any metrics that are reporting an improvement in the fiscal state of the poor, in fact, it all looks worse.

My bad..that was my point...they didnt spend the money on what they promised, so the tax cuts should have gone ahead as legislated. In fact the poor have got poorer over the last two years and the so called wellness budget was just smoke and mirrors. One of the Ministers admitted today that beneficiary remuneration levels are now well below the poverty line, but the Government has no intention to help out more than what is currently being given.

GV27

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#2340476 19-Oct-2019 09:42

networkn:

Increasing the brackets wouldn't be a bad idea.

That's how the last round of National tax cuts worked.

I'm not sure cutting tax rates themselves is that simple once you bring WFFTC into the equation. Realistically the ideal way forward would be scrap WFFTC and then put those savings back into the lower to mid brackets and move them up so that people actually end up better off.

I've got no problem with benefits and emergency assistance but at the moment state assistance happens in different places and through different agencies which has never made sense to me. But no one wants to talk about whether you can achieve the same or better outcomes through lower tax because as soon as something is framed as a 'tax cut', all hell breaks loose and debate shuts down.

tdgeek

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#2340739 19-Oct-2019 18:16

GV27:

networkn:

Increasing the brackets wouldn't be a bad idea.

That's how the last round of National tax cuts worked.

I'm not sure cutting tax rates themselves is that simple once you bring WFFTC into the equation. Realistically the ideal way forward would be scrap WFFTC and then put those savings back into the lower to mid brackets and move them up so that people actually end up better off.

I've got no problem with benefits and emergency assistance but at the moment state assistance happens in different places and through different agencies which has never made sense to me. But no one wants to talk about whether you can achieve the same or better outcomes through lower tax because as soon as something is framed as a 'tax cut', all hell breaks loose and debate shuts down.

If you made tax "adjustments" annual, you can do that. But you still need to differentiate between an 18yo on low income and a family.

It doesn't bear loose at all. Tax cuts are either tax cuts or they are tax adjustments .They cant be both. If they generally appear in election year.....

GV27

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#2341030 20-Oct-2019 14:00

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116705422/light-rail-reality-the-six-power-point-slides-that-stopped-a-city

Tempted to stand for Mayor on a platform of secession.

GV27

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#2341212 21-Oct-2019 09:53

https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2019/10/21/super-fund-mess-will-delay-light-rail-by-years/

More on Light Rail. It really is a total mess.

MikeB4

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#2341273 21-Oct-2019 11:35

I had a long hard thought over the weekend and reviewing the events of last week I do wish to endure another 4 years of a government propped up and held to ransom by NZ First and Winston Peters. He in my humble opinion embarrassed the institution of government, parliament, the office he holds and New Zealand. He demonstrated childish petulance and petty vindictiveness. No party that shows that they will partner with this loathsome individual will get my vote be it Labour, National, NZ Green or whomever. I would rather see a series of minority governments than continue with the charade and continued disgrace of this odious individual holding the third highest public position in New Zealand.

tdgeek

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#2341285 21-Oct-2019 11:45

MikeB4:

I had a long hard thought over the weekend and reviewing the events of last week I do wish to endure another 4 years of a government propped up and held to ransom by NZ First and Winston Peters. He in my humble opinion embarrassed the institution of government, parliament, the office he holds and New Zealand. He demonstrated childish petulance and petty vindictiveness. No party that shows that they will partner with this loathsome individual will get my vote be it Labour, National, NZ Green or whomever. I would rather see a series of minority governments than continue with the charade and continued disgrace of this odious individual holding the third highest public position in New Zealand.

I agree

Labour could have got the support they needed, NZF could have ticked off a few nice boxes for their members, Winston could have been a steady part of this terms Government, and it was like that to begin with. Sadly, ego needed a lift. It will add some chapters to his book

Hopefully there will be antics this time next year and NZF members will vote National and NZF wont get the 5%. Then Its Labour vs National and I'm not bothered either way. At least there wont be an annual budget with NZF bribes in it. Im not sure what the NZF demographic are like, but he surely cannot be representative of them

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sir1963

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#2341289 21-Oct-2019 11:50

MikeB4:

I had a long hard thought over the weekend and reviewing the events of last week I do wish to endure another 4 years of a government propped up and held to ransom by NZ First and Winston Peters. He in my humble opinion embarrassed the institution of government, parliament, the office he holds and New Zealand. He demonstrated childish petulance and petty vindictiveness. No party that shows that they will partner with this loathsome individual will get my vote be it Labour, National, NZ Green or whomever. I would rather see a series of minority governments than continue with the charade and continued disgrace of this odious individual holding the third highest public position in New Zealand.

If you are talking about Winstons remarks and TV3... well I agree more with Winston than Mark Richardson.

tdgeek

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#2341300 21-Oct-2019 12:02

sir1963:

MikeB4:

I had a long hard thought over the weekend and reviewing the events of last week I do wish to endure another 4 years of a government propped up and held to ransom by NZ First and Winston Peters. He in my humble opinion embarrassed the institution of government, parliament, the office he holds and New Zealand. He demonstrated childish petulance and petty vindictiveness. No party that shows that they will partner with this loathsome individual will get my vote be it Labour, National, NZ Green or whomever. I would rather see a series of minority governments than continue with the charade and continued disgrace of this odious individual holding the third highest public position in New Zealand.

If you are talking about Winstons remarks and TV3... well I agree more with Winston than Mark Richardson.

I see Mark R as Stuff Comments. Stupid but funny. His MO is being loud and silly. That's his need to be different, to be out there, to stir, so he is quite a good media presence. If he was sensible and normal, he'd have no value. His opinions are meaningless.

Peters however is destructive. he has been in all the parties Governments, and he has abused that not used that. He could have achieved a great deal, but he continued to squander it. I feel he is a hindrance not a help to NZ

Mahon

473 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2341301 21-Oct-2019 12:02

MikeB4:

I had a long hard thought over the weekend and reviewing the events of last week I do wish to endure another 4 years of a government propped up and held to ransom by NZ First and Winston Peters. He in my humble opinion embarrassed the institution of government, parliament, the office he holds and New Zealand. He demonstrated childish petulance and petty vindictiveness. No party that shows that they will partner with this loathsome individual will get my vote be it Labour, National, NZ Green or whomever. I would rather see a series of minority governments than continue with the charade and continued disgrace of this odious individual holding the third highest public position in New Zealand.

I was led to believe that this is why Labour went with Winston and National did not, during the coalition talks. From what I have been told, National flatly refused some of Winstons demands. Jacinda on the other hand wanted to dance with the devil.

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#2341302 21-Oct-2019 12:03

sir1963:

MikeB4:

I had a long hard thought over the weekend and reviewing the events of last week I do wish to endure another 4 years of a government propped up and held to ransom by NZ First and Winston Peters. He in my humble opinion embarrassed the institution of government, parliament, the office he holds and New Zealand. He demonstrated childish petulance and petty vindictiveness. No party that shows that they will partner with this loathsome individual will get my vote be it Labour, National, NZ Green or whomever. I would rather see a series of minority governments than continue with the charade and continued disgrace of this odious individual holding the third highest public position in New Zealand.

If you are talking about Winstons remarks and TV3... well I agree more with Winston than Mark Richardson.

I don't know what Mark Richardson said, I seldom watch TV3. Yes his comments about TV3 got me thinking. It could have been about TVNZ, Sky, Fletchers for any business. For a Deputy PM to make such comment about the possible end of a lawful company and resultant loss of jobs was disgraceful. He clearly demonstrated his non suitability for his role or any government role. The PM and Labour should do the honorable thing and distance them selves from Peters and NZ First even if the last year of the government is a minority government.

networkn

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#2341304 21-Oct-2019 12:07

MikeB4:

sir1963:

MikeB4:

I had a long hard thought over the weekend and reviewing the events of last week I do wish to endure another 4 years of a government propped up and held to ransom by NZ First and Winston Peters. He in my humble opinion embarrassed the institution of government, parliament, the office he holds and New Zealand. He demonstrated childish petulance and petty vindictiveness. No party that shows that they will partner with this loathsome individual will get my vote be it Labour, National, NZ Green or whomever. I would rather see a series of minority governments than continue with the charade and continued disgrace of this odious individual holding the third highest public position in New Zealand.

If you are talking about Winstons remarks and TV3... well I agree more with Winston than Mark Richardson.

I don't know what Mark Richardson said, I seldom watch TV3. Yes his comments about TV3 got me thinking. It could have been about TVNZ, Sky, Fletchers for any business. For a Deputy PM to make such comment about the possible end of a lawful company and resultant loss of jobs was disgraceful. He clearly demonstrated his non suitability for his role or any government role. The PM and Labour should do the honorable thing and distance them selves from Peters and NZ First even if the last year of the government is a minority government.

His heir apparant has spent considerable time doing the same. Last time Jones was sent home to study, but his understanding of the rules isn't the issue, being able to keep his mouth shut is, and JA can't and won't do anything about it.

tdgeek

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#2341306 21-Oct-2019 12:11

Mahon:

I was led to believe that this is why Labour went with Winston and National did not, during the coalition talks. From what I have been told, National flatly refused some of Winstons demands. Jacinda on the other hand wanted to dance with the devil.

In at any cost I would say

Serious question. Labour/Greens and National poll under 50%, NZF is Kingmaker, Labour/Greens and National decline him, what then? Highest seats wins a minority Government, and Lab and Nats agree on confidence and supply?

networkn

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#2341311 21-Oct-2019 12:18

I think if they pick another leader for NZF by next election and if it's not shock jock Shane Jones (though I think he's the only likely option realistically) then they are potentially far less disruptive in the following cycle. I think if it wasn't for Winston, NZF would have gone with National last election and I think he picked based on a vendetta he had against National rather as a primary motive.

GV27

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#2341316 21-Oct-2019 12:26

Too bad about the entire country being held back through lack of meaningful reform, a list MP has a grudge!

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