Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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kingdragonfly

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#2622633 16-Dec-2020 11:50

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Sideface: Mitch McConnell congratulates Biden ...

“Many of us hoped that the presidential election would yield a different result, but our system of government has processes to determine who will be sworn in on Jan. 20,” Mr. McConnell said in a speech on the Senate floor.

“The Electoral College has spoken. So today, I want to congratulate President-elect Joe Biden.”

Wow, he waited for a pretty strong political wind, before conceding defeat.

Technofreak

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#2622637 16-Dec-2020 11:55

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freitasm:

This doesn't seem to be a conspiracy theory - the facts laid out are well known.

When he started ranting about the "GOP having a cynical strategy of maintain power and having a permanent stake in stoking a cold civil war and having a deeply divided nation" I lost interest. Up till then he was making sense. It then it all started sounding a like a conspiracy theory to me.

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Technofreak

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#2622642 16-Dec-2020 12:03

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kingdragonfly:

Wow, he waited for a pretty strong political wind, before conceding defeat.

Reading between the lines I think most republicans like Mitch McConnell have had to tread a fine line. As in any political party there will be many factions within the Republicans. To have been too quick to acknowledge Joe Biden's win will have meant alienating the Trump faction.

I don't think there was any doubt they would acknowledge Joe Biden as the President Elect. It was just a matter of when they saw the timing was right. They had to be seen to be giving Trump and his supporters the chance to have their say before choosing a time or event to make the public acknowledgement.

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Rikkitic

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#2622645 16-Dec-2020 12:07

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Technofreak:

When he started ranting about the "GOP having a cynical strategy of maintain power and having a permanent stake in stoking a cold civil war and having a deeply divided nation" I lost interest. Up till then he was making sense. It then it all started sounding a like a conspiracy theory to me.

The GOP has abandoned all pretense of democratic principles and fair play in pursuit of power by any means at any cost. Republicans have repeatedly show themselves to only care about winning, regardless of how dishonestly they achieve that and how much damage it does. This can be seen in states with Republican congresses that passed last-minute measures to cripple incoming Democratic administrations. It can be seen in the destructive and pointless ongoing attempts to deny the Democratic presidential victory. It can be seen in the few Republicans who still believe in the party's traditional values stepping out. Today's Republicans are bad-tempered losers prepared to do anything to cling to power and privilege, including 'stoking a cold civil war and having a deeply divided nation'.

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FineWine

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#2622648 16-Dec-2020 12:18

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Rikkitic:

Technofreak:

When he started ranting about the "GOP having a cynical strategy of maintain power and having a permanent stake in stoking a cold civil war and having a deeply divided nation" I lost interest. Up till then he was making sense. It then it all started sounding a like a conspiracy theory to me.

The GOP has abandoned all pretence of democratic principles and fair play in pursuit of power by any means at any cost. Republicans have repeatedly show themselves to only care about winning, regardless of how dishonestly they achieve that and how much damage it does. This can be seen in states with Republican congresses that passed last-minute measures to cripple incoming Democratic administrations. It can be seen in the destructive and pointless ongoing attempts to deny the Democratic presidential victory. It can be seen in the few Republicans who still believe in the party's traditional values stepping out. Today's Republicans are bad-tempered losers prepared to do anything to cling to power and privilege, including 'stoking a cold civil war and having a deeply divided nation'.

Well said 👏

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

Rikkitic

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#2622649 16-Dec-2020 12:18

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Technofreak:

Reading between the lines I think most republicans like Mitch McConnell have had to tread a fine line. As in any political party there will be many factions within the Republicans. To have been too quick to acknowledge Joe Biden's win will have meant alienating the Trump faction.

I don't think there was any doubt they would acknowledge Joe Biden as the President Elect. It was just a matter of when they saw the timing was right. They had to be seen to be giving Trump and his supporters the chance to have their say before choosing a time or event to make the public acknowledgement.

It was simple craven opportunistic cowardice. McConnell and the others are so terrified of bruising Trump's precious ego that they don't dare stand up until they are so cornered they have no choice. Tradition and simple manners have long dictated that the likely winner of a presidential election is accorded the simple courtesy of being addressed as the 'president-elect'. There has been no doubt for weeks that this individual would be Biden. A child banging on the door screaming 'no'! is not a reason to ignore this simple fact.

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Paul1977

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#2622651 16-Dec-2020 12:21

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Sideface:

Paul1977: Whether he believes it's actually a possibility or not, Trump will now bang on that the vote shouldn't be certified by Congress.

The New York Times - McConnell Congratulates President-elect Biden and Lobbies Senators to Oppose Last-Ditch Effort to Overturn Results

EDIT

and ...

The Washington Post - Opinion - Mitch McConnell begs Republicans to stop feeding the Trump beast

But none of that will stop Trump himself from going on about it. It will go nowhere of course, but might get him some more money from his supporters. He'll milk them right up until Jan 20 (and probably beyond).

freitasm

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#2622673 16-Dec-2020 12:39

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ROFL: "Fake electors try to deliver Arizona's 11 votes for Trump"

In another sign of the lingering unrest over President Donald Trump's election loss, an Arizona group sent the National Archives in Washington, D.C., notarized documents last week intended to deliver, wrongly, the state's 11 electoral votes for him.

Copies of the documents obtained by The Arizona Republic show a group that claimed to represent the "sovereign citizens of the Great State of Arizona" submitted signed papers casting votes for what they want: a second term for Trump and Vice President Mike Pence.

Mesa resident Lori Osiecki, 62, helped created a facsimile of the "certificate of ascertainment" that is submitted to formally cast each state's electoral votes as part of an effort to prevent what she views as the fraudulent theft of the election.

"We seated before the legislators here. We already turned it in. We beat them to the game," she said.

Osiecki said she and others associated with a group called "AZ Protect the Vote" have attended the postelection rallies protesting the results, including the daylong meeting in Phoenix that included Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani. She left that gathering upset that Gov. Doug Ducey wasn't supporting the president's efforts and she wanted to take further action. She and the others chose electors as a result.

"One thing I will say about conservatives, is if something is wrong, and we have lost — a true loss — then we accept," she said. "We're not going to drag people through the mud and fight it. But this clearly has got issues. I saw it with my own eyes and my own research. After that hearing, I was shocked we didn't have any other marching orders."

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freitasm

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#2622674 16-Dec-2020 12:40

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More laughs: "Arizona judge scraps election fraud lawsuit in which plaintiff was not a registered voter"

A Pinal County Superior Court judge on Tuesday jettisoned a lawsuit claiming widespread election fraud in Arizona, saying the plaintiff had no standing to challenge the state's election results because she was not registered to vote.

Judge Kevin White also said former Gilbert Public Schools Board President Staci Burk had waited too long to file her complaint, and allowing it to proceed would "circumvent the strong public policy supporting prompt resolution of election cases."

Burk filed the case Dec. 7, seven days after state officials certified Arizona's Nov. 3 results. Voters have a five-day window to bring election contests.

Her claims closely mirrored those in another suit that was making its way through federal court at the time: Both alleged "massive election fraud" in Arizona involving Dominion voting machines, foreign interference and illegal votes, and both named Secretary of State Katie Hobbs and Gov. Doug Ducey as defendants.

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Technofreak

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#2622675 16-Dec-2020 12:43

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Rikkitic:

The GOP has abandoned all pretense of democratic principles and fair play in pursuit of power by any means at any cost. Republicans have repeatedly show themselves to only care about winning, regardless of how dishonestly they achieve that and how much damage it does. This can be seen in states with Republican congresses that passed last-minute measures to cripple incoming Democratic administrations. It can be seen in the destructive and pointless ongoing attempts to deny the Democratic presidential victory. It can be seen in the few Republicans who still believe in the party's traditional values stepping out. Today's Republicans are bad-tempered losers prepared to do anything to cling to power and privilege, including 'stoking a cold civil war and having a deeply divided nation'.

Prove to me that the Democrats have never done the same with respect to last minute measures then I might agree about the win at any cost allegation.

There's no doubt some Republicans are bad losers etc (as no doubt there would be some Democrats) but to tar all Republicans with that brush is over the top and unproven in my opinion. However I don't expect to be able to convince you or some of the other posters on this thread of that.

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freitasm

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#2622680 16-Dec-2020 12:47

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Technofreak:

Rikkitic:

The GOP has abandoned all pretense of democratic principles and fair play in pursuit of power by any means at any cost. Republicans have repeatedly show themselves to only care about winning, regardless of how dishonestly they achieve that and how much damage it does. This can be seen in states with Republican congresses that passed last-minute measures to cripple incoming Democratic administrations. It can be seen in the destructive and pointless ongoing attempts to deny the Democratic presidential victory. It can be seen in the few Republicans who still believe in the party's traditional values stepping out. Today's Republicans are bad-tempered losers prepared to do anything to cling to power and privilege, including 'stoking a cold civil war and having a deeply divided nation'.

Prove to me that the Democrats have never done the same with respect to last minute measures then I might agree about the win at any cost allegation.

There's no doubt some Republicans are bad losers etc (as no doubt there would be some Democrats) but to tar all Republicans with that brush is over the top and unproven in my opinion. However I don't expect to be able to convince you or some of the other posters on this thread of that.

Let's tar those 126 Republican congresshuman who wanted to throw the election out to start with then.

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kingdragonfly

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#2622693 16-Dec-2020 13:19

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Technofreak: Prove to me that the Democrats have never done the same with respect to last minute measures then I might agree about the win at any cost allegation.

I don't know what election you were watching, but this is unprecedented.

Even before the election, Trump was painting a picture of widespread voter fraud.

There's an excess of proof that this was as close to a coup as America has faced sine the civil war.

1) the 59 lawsuits by Trump

2) the electoral vote is usually incredibly boring, a non-new event. Many states had to hide the location of the gatherings, and provide police protection for fear of violence.

3) "count in all votes" in places he lost

4) "stop the count" in places he won

I'm sure there's more I've missed.

neb

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#2622719 16-Dec-2020 13:51

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Technofreak:
They had to be seen to be giving Trump and his supporters the chance to have their say before choosing a time or event to make the public acknowledgement.

Showing once and for all that what used to be called the Republican Party is now better identified as Trump's Bitch.

(Apologies to female dogs).

Fred99

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#2622724 16-Dec-2020 13:55

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Pretty standard for conservative authoritarians to show unconditional loyalty to leadership regardless of merit - that's what conservative movements are all for, and (hopefully) liberalism is against.

In 2016 when campaigning, Ted Cruz called Trump a "snivelling coward". In 2020. they're BFF. Cruz probably thinks he's got a future - maybe even a presidential run. If he shows disloyalty to the establishment and leader - he's going nowhere.

Problem for liberals is that they end up showing dirty laundry in public, already criticism from AOC, Bernie etc to what they see as "too moderate" Democrat leadership. This isn't unique to the USA, "unity" is seen as a show of strength, conservatives are better at it, they fall in line (or get slaughtered). In the case of Trumpism, it came close to real fascism.

Batman

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#2622736 16-Dec-2020 14:12

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Palm Beach neighbours don't want him there

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300185382/donald-trumps-maralago-neighbours-tell-him-to-spend-his-postpresidency-days-elsewhere

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