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Rikkitic
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  #2622748 16-Dec-2020 14:25
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Technofreak:

 

Prove to me that the Democrats have never done the same with respect to last minute measures then I might agree about the win at any cost allegation.

 

There's no doubt some Republicans are bad losers etc (as no doubt there would be some Democrats) but to tar all Republicans with that brush is over the top and unproven in my opinion. However I don't expect to be able to convince you or some of the other posters on this thread of that.

 

 

The last days I have been watching on a variety of channels, professional journalists with years of experience and numerous political pundits and other experts, express astonishment at the extent of Republican dishonesty, mendacity, and actual treachery being displayed. As these people keep saying, nothing like this has ever happened before. Yes, of course there have been plenty of individual bad-faith Democrats over time, but nothing on the scale presently being seen. A significant number of Republican congressional representatives, who all take an oath of office, along with any number of corrupt lawyers and lesser officials, have been engaged in efforts to subvert legitimate processes and institutions involved in the legal transfer of power. In effect, an attempted coup has been underway, and more than one reputable commentator who never previously would have seriously uttered this term, now has. 

 

Not all Republicans support this, and those who don't are making an exit in one way or another. A handful with some honour remain, but it is not an exaggeration to target most of the spineless sycophants with this brush. They fully deserve it. The Republican party that used to be, is well and truly dead. As others have pointed out, it is now the Trump party. A new movement will be needed to embrace the survivors with genuine conservative values. 

 

This trend has become so pervasive that I also don't think anything you can say would convince me otherwise, but I am happy to continue listening to your arguments if you wish. I learn things from those I don't agree with, not those I do, and I try to remain open to that. But I genuinely believe in this case that Trump and the Republicans who enable him have sold their souls for thirty shekels of silver.  

 

 

 

 

 

   





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floydbloke
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  #2622749 16-Dec-2020 14:25
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Batman: Palm Beach neighbours don't want him there

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300185382/donald-trumps-maralago-neighbours-tell-him-to-spend-his-postpresidency-days-elsewhere

 

He could move to LA, it's sunny there too.

 

 

(Photograph: Richard Vogel/AP) 





Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.


Technofreak
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  #2622750 16-Dec-2020 14:27
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kingdragonfly:
Technofreak: Prove to me that the Democrats have never done the same with respect to last minute measures then I might agree about the win at any cost allegation.


I don't know what election you were watching, but this is unprecedented.

Even before the election, Trump was painting a picture of widespread voter fraud.

There's an excess of proof that this was as close to a coup as America has faced sine the civil war.

1) the 59 lawsuits by Trump

2) the electoral vote is usually incredibly boring, a non-new event. Many states had to hide the location of the gatherings, and provide police protection for fear of violence.

3) "count in all votes" in places he lost

4) "stop the count" in places he won

I'm sure there's more I've missed.

 

We're talking about two different things. I wasn't commenting on the lunatic fringe that support Trump. I was talking about the machinations that go on from time to time when the current term of a government is coming to end and the encumbents make changes they know will impede the incoming government. This was in reply to this comment from Rikkitic "This can be seen in states with Republican congresses that passed last-minute measures to cripple incoming Democratic administrations"





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neb

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  #2622753 16-Dec-2020 14:29
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Fred99:

Pretty standard for conservative authoritarians to show unconditional loyalty to leadership regardless of merit

 

 

And in particular unconditional loyalty to the leader is far more important than qualifications for the job, ability to do the job, honesty, integrity, etc. In fact one thing you don't want to do is appear too good, because then you're a threat to the Dear Leader. Both Stalin and Hitler were very good at appointing barely-good-enough sub-leaders while at the same time playing them off against each other to keep them in line and not focused on becoming the new leader. Trump wasn't that clever, but he achieved more or less the same effect anyway.

Rikkitic
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  #2622755 16-Dec-2020 14:39
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neb:

 

And in particular unconditional loyalty to the leader is far more important than qualifications for the job, ability to do the job, honesty, integrity, etc. In fact one thing you don't want to do is appear too good, because then you're a threat to the Dear Leader. Both Stalin and Hitler were very good at appointing barely-good-enough sub-leaders while at the same time playing them off against each other to keep them in line and not focused on becoming the new leader. Trump wasn't that clever, but he achieved more or less the same effect anyway.

 

Trump achieved it by employing barely-not-good-enough incompetents.

 

 





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Technofreak
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  #2622766 16-Dec-2020 14:45
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Rikkitic:

 

The last days I have been watching on a variety of channels, professional journalists with years of experience and numerous political pundits and other experts, express astonishment at the extent of Republican dishonesty, mendacity, and actual treachery being displayed. As these people keep saying, nothing like this has ever happened before. Yes, of course there have been plenty of individual bad-faith Democrats over time, but nothing on the scale presently being seen. A significant number of Republican congressional representatives, who all take an oath of office, along with any number of corrupt lawyers and lesser officials, have been engaged in efforts to subvert legitimate processes and institutions involved in the legal transfer of power. In effect, an attempted coup has been underway, and more than one reputable commentator who never previously would have seriously uttered this term, now has. 

 

Not all Republicans support this, and those who don't are making an exit in one way or another. A handful with some honour remain, but it is not an exaggeration to target most of the spineless sycophants with this brush. They fully deserve it. The Republican party that used to be, is well and truly dead. As others have pointed out, it is now the Trump party. A new movement will be needed to embrace the survivors with genuine conservative values. 

 

This trend has become so pervasive that I also don't think anything you can say would convince me otherwise, but I am happy to continue listening to your arguments if you wish. I learn things from those I don't agree with, not those I do, and I try to remain open to that. But I genuinely believe in this case that Trump and the Republicans who enable him have sold their souls for thirty shekels of silver.  

 

 

Whether or not it turns out to be the Trump Party only time will tell. I am more inclined to think Trump will find he is "No Friends Freddy" within the greater Republican Party as 2021 unfolds.

 

I agree Trump and his close allies (Giuliani and Co. etc) have sold their souls. However I don't think Trump's influence within the party is a great as some might think/fear. There are good examples of this, his appointees to the Supreme Court haven't done his bidding as he appeared to have expected them to, the Republican leaders in Georgia wouldn't bend to his pressure. Also the fact he's gone through a good number of aides (including some he appointed) at the White House would also indicate he doesn't have support in a lot of quarters.

 

Once his powers as the C in C/President disappear in January I think he will be a largely a spent force. There might be plenty of noise but that will be about it.





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kingdragonfly
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  #2622856 16-Dec-2020 16:33
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Republicans, the party of unpatriotic un-American dictator-loving cucks




Handle9
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  #2622952 16-Dec-2020 17:25
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Technofreak:

Rikkitic:


The GOP has abandoned all pretense of democratic principles and fair play in pursuit of power by any means at any cost. Republicans have repeatedly show themselves to only care about winning, regardless of how dishonestly they achieve that and how much damage it does. This can be seen in states with Republican congresses that passed last-minute measures to cripple incoming Democratic administrations. It can be seen in the destructive and pointless ongoing attempts to deny the Democratic presidential victory. It can be seen in the few Republicans who still believe in the party's traditional values stepping out. Today's Republicans are bad-tempered losers prepared to do anything to cling to power and privilege, including 'stoking a cold civil war and having a deeply divided nation'.



Prove to me that the Democrats have never done the same with respect to last minute measures then I might agree about the win at any cost allegation.


There's no doubt some Republicans are bad losers etc (as no doubt there would be some Democrats) but to tar all Republicans with that brush is over the top and unproven in my opinion. However I don't expect to be able to convince you or some of the other posters on this thread of that.



Nah the party of Jim Crow and actual election fraud are the angels. They would never do anything nefarious or venal. A democratic president would never abuse his pardon privilege to get large donors off the hook or manipulate democratic process like budget reconsiliation to pass highly controversial laws.

Handle9
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  #2622953 16-Dec-2020 17:28
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kingdragonfly:
Batman: "smell something... It's not a steak well done.

Handle9: "You've been saying this sort of stuff the whole way through and it's all played out in line with the law. Why on earth would this be any different?"


...because Trump.

59 lawsuits trying to overturn a democracy's election results is different. Trump is not going to go quietly into the night.

Lastly Trump pardoned self-proclaimed dirty trickster Roger Stone.



What's going quietly got to do with it? Trump's lawsuits have failed, all sorts of grubs have been pardoned by various presidents and Trump will drift off to howl at the moon on January 10th. It's not actually that easy to stop a change of government.

Fred99
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  #2622978 16-Dec-2020 18:17
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Handle9:

 Trump will drift off to howl at the moon on January 10th.

 

🤒 when you know it's a typo - but wish it wasn't.


Sideface
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  #2622989 16-Dec-2020 18:59
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Donald remains on another planet, judging by his many Tweets today.

 

Here is a good one, hot off the press:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The percentage keeps rising.

 

If this claim is true - which I doubt - Cult45 is remarkably stupid, or remarkably deluded.   😗





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Fred99
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  #2622995 16-Dec-2020 19:12
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Handle9:

Nah the party of Jim Crow and actual election fraud are the angels.

 

Talking of 8Chan - that disingenuous quote could be directly from some of the folks there.

 

 

 

 

 

 


gzt

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  #2623000 16-Dec-2020 19:28
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Technofreak: Whether or not it turns out to be the Trump Party only time will tell. I am more inclined to think Trump will find he is "No Friends Freddy" within the greater Republican Party as 2021 unfolds.

It's a tricky business. Trump is building a campaign fund with continued appeals. US$200 million so far. Some of that will be spent on defending multiple post presidential legal issues, self-issued federal pardon in hand, or not.

There's a good chance Trump will run in the next election.

Trump could seek, not seek, or lose the republican nomination and run as independent if all that fails. Trump will not care if the republican party loses as a result. As long as Trump is putting money in the bank doesn't matter to him either way.

networkn
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  #2623002 16-Dec-2020 19:32
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Fred99:

 

Handle9:

Nah the party of Jim Crow and actual election fraud are the angels.

 

Talking of 8Chan - that disingenuous quote could be directly from some of the folks there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And some of the comments here could have been pulled right from Trumps twitter feed. Honestly some of what is here is unhinged.


Rikkitic
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  #2623003 16-Dec-2020 19:35
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networkn:

 

And some of the comments here could have been pulled right from Trumps twitter feed. Honestly some of what is here is unhinged.

 

 

Maybe you should avoid reading things that upset you.

 

 





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