Israel and Middle East 2023

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Awrrr
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#3172609 17-Dec-2023 11:46

SJB:

Reported by the BBC. I trust them.

What was reported by the BBC? That he shouted in Yiddish? That the IDF has adopted the LNB protocol? That the soldiers will not face disciplinary action? That it's do what you like mate?

This kind of inflammatory language, even if based on something that turns out to be true, does not help matters when there are people itching to torch a synagogue or mosque.

I am not pro-Israeli and I am not pro-Hamas. Both seem to have carried out despicable acts. But emotional commentary with personal interjections doesn't make things better. That is all.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

SJB

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#3172612 17-Dec-2023 12:18

Rikkitic:

SJB:

Reported by the BBC. I trust them.

What was reported by the BBC? That he shouted in Yiddish? That the IDF has adopted the LNB protocol? That the soldiers will not face disciplinary action? That it's do what you like mate?

This kind of inflammatory language, even if based on something that turns out to be true, does not help matters when there are people itching to torch a synagogue or mosque.

I am not pro-Israeli and I am not pro-Hamas. Both seem to have carried out despicable acts. But emotional commentary with personal interjections doesn't make things better. That is all.

Yes to the bold comments. The LNB and 'got your back' comments were obviously sarcasm.

The Hammas attack was deplorable on every level and the people responsible must be brough to justice. But what the Israelis are doing is revenge, plain and simple, by an extreme ultra right wing government. Led by a politician who should be in prison.

kingdragonfly

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#3172613 17-Dec-2023 12:20

I don't want to be accused of being an edgelord, so about the "Times of Israel":

Overall, we rate the Times of Israel as Left-Center biased based on editorial positions that slightly favor the left. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact-check record.
...
Its headquarters are in Jerusalem.
...
Times of Israel: Initial 'Israeli Defense Forces' probe: 3 hostages were shirtless, waving white flag when troops shot them

Three hostages shot dead by Israeli troops in Gaza City’s Shejaiya neighborhood Friday were shirtless, and one of them was carrying a stick with a makeshift white flag, the IDF said Saturday after an initial probe into the tragic incident.

[The three] managed to escape Hamas captivity before they were mistakenly shot dead by troops on Friday morning at around 10 a.m.

...[an IDF soldier] identified three suspicious figures exiting a building several dozen meters away.

All three were shirtless, with one of the figures carrying a stick with a makeshift white flag, according to the investigation.

The soldier, who believed the men moving toward him was an attempt by Hamas to lure IDF soldiers into a trap, immediately opened fire and shouted “terrorists!” to the other forces.

According to the probe, that soldier killed two of the men, while the third man, who was hit and wounded, fled back into the building from which he came.

At that stage, the commander of the battalion, who was also in the multi-story building where the soldier had fired from, went outside and called on the forces to stop shooting.

Meanwhile, sounds of someone — apparently the third hostage — shouting “Help” in Hebrew were heard by troops in the area.

Moments later, the third man came out of the building to which he had fled, and another soldier opened fire at him, killing him.
...
The soldier who opened fire upon identifying the three men did so against protocols, as did the soldier who killed the third man, according to the officer.

Still, the IDF understood that the conditions in the field led the soldiers to act in that way
...

gzt

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#3172616 17-Dec-2023 12:44

SJB: The Israeli security minister is an illegal settler himself and has already been handing out assault rifles like sweets. He is basically arming his own private army. There are over 500,000 illegal settlers who think exactly the way he does.

The last sentence above is entirely incorrect. The majority are not radicals at all mostly there for a place to live. Smotrich is a radical settler who is extreme even for many of his previous far right allies. He is only in government because Netanyahu needs the support of that alliance to stay out of jail. One of those previous far right allies saying of Smotrich last year:

Times of Israel: Kahana went on. “At the same time, if he razes Khan el Ahmar, rebuilds Homesh, and brings about the dissolution of the Palestinian Authority all at once, we will very quickly be at war… If he acts like in bull in a china shop he will be very dangerous.”

Two of those things have not happened yet, not for lack of trying, and only because of the intervention of the supreme court, and here we are.

gzt

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#3173196 18-Dec-2023 18:11

Escalation in radical settler attacks against Palestinian farmers

kingdragonfly

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#3173555 20-Dec-2023 09:27

One of those cases where extreme left wing and extreme right wing are indistinguishable.

Honestly I've supported almost no restrictions on free speech, except when it incites violence. I've often agreed with the ACLU. Famously they have pro-bono Jewish lawyers to defend neo-Nazis right to protest, for example.

The caveat is that free speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

I would support unarmed students to non-violently protest, calling for an intifada in Israel. And I'd support Universities expelling them.

If any student is armed or incites immediate and local violence they should be expelled, and arrested for assault and battery.

Foreign Policy: Defining Away Palestinians’ Right to Resist

The decision this week by Harvard University not to remove its president amid a storm of criticism over her congressional testimony about campus antisemitism offers a good opportunity to discuss the relationship between language and the political possibilities and perils surrounding the ongoing crisis in Gaza.
...

SJB

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#3173559 20-Dec-2023 09:41

SJB:

What is the point of the UN Security Council?

They blather on for days to produce a statement that is the lowest common denominator which you know both sides in the conflict will completely ignore. Meanwhile hundreds of innocent people die.

For Israel they will only stop when they can announce to their voters that 'Hammas has been destroyed'. They simply pay lip service to any US requests to ensure the flow of munitions continues.

For Hammas I'm not sure if they can ever stop.

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SaltyNZ

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#3173560 20-Dec-2023 09:45

SJB:

What is the point of the UN Security Council?

It exists in its current hamstrung form because that's the only way you would even get the Great Powers around a table to talk. I don't think anybody believes it is great, but it's better than not.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

SJB

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#3175324 25-Dec-2023 09:15

That Netanyahu has a wicked sense of humour.

According to him Israel has paid a great price for going to war as there have been 154 soldiers killed. And I see they have lost a few tanks.

I presume the great price referred to the tanks.

gzt

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#3175333 25-Dec-2023 10:22

Israel's surveillance units on the Gaza border are predominantly young and female:

Times Of Israel: Surveillance soldiers charge sexism a factor in their Oct. 7 warnings being ignored 'If the soldiers had been male, things would have looked different,' one says in exposé by Haaretz; soldier says they were left to be slaughtered by terrorists like 'sitting ducks'

The soldiers say the male chain of command ignored numerous warnings of Hamas training scenarios involving attacks on border posts and ignored a marked increase in Gaza border activity including drone flights and explosives placement near the wall.

The surveillance soldiers allege the outcome could have been very different if male soldiers had observed this activity. Haaretz published a story last year detailing harsh conditions in these units including several suicides and disrespect from the chain of command.

SJB

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#3175432 25-Dec-2023 18:28

Israel Gaza war: Hamas says 70 killed in Israeli air strike on camp - BBC News

I guess the Israelis are taking into account the requests from the Americans for more targeted air strikes. Or not.

SJB

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#3176778 1-Jan-2024 16:17

Quote from BBC article.

Israel's hard-right finance minister Bezalel Smotrich called for Palestinians to leave Gaza and make way for Israelis who could "make the desert bloom".

No doubt they can walk on water and raise the dead as well.

gzt

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#3176793 1-Jan-2024 18:29

The horror continues:

Yahoo News: Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich told Israel's Army Radio on Sunday that if Israel does the right thing, there will be an exodus of Palestinians "and we will live in the Gaza Strip."

"We will not allow a situation in which two million people live there.

If there are 100,000 to 200,000 Arabs living in Gaza, the discussion about the day after will be completely different,"

SJB

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#3176951 1-Jan-2024 22:21

In a normal, civilised government that guy would be toast and on the way to prison.

gzt

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#3176962 1-Jan-2024 23:39

At this point Smotrich is almost the only thing keeping Netanyahu in the Prime Minister's job and Netanyahu's best hope of weakening Israel's constitution long enough to start writing a get out of jail free card.

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