Bombing at Manchester concert, 19 dead

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Forums › Politics › Bombing at Manchester concert, 19 dead

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Mad Scientist
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#1794633 4-Jun-2017 19:52

Wiggum:

joker97:

Lias:

A lot more will have to die before the UK has the stomach to do what's needed.

I wonder what that's needed would be.

Simple. Just stop immigration completely from certain countries/passport holders. The attacks will continue for a few more years or maybe decades, but eventually the terrorists inside will all be dead. These guys have a habit of destroying themselves. ISIS/Muslim extremists inside the UK will not survive.

But of course it will all be back to square one once another bleeding heart liberal/left wing government takes office.

I thought he was going to say develop a "Minority Report" machine.

I can't think of anything else that could reliably work, other than, say create a new religion to absorb and consume said religion.

Stopping immigration - as far as I know, attacks have so far been carried out by local citizens.

Eventually they will eliminate themselves - umm ... as long as there is the internet, overseas travel, etc more will be recruited.

In terms of banning in-bound travel - you must know that about (?)60 countries ban in-bound travel of Israelis/Jews, and has been for longer than most people here have been alive. Not stating my opinion of whether it's right or wrong, just stating matter-of-fact-ly.

Batman

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#1794634 4-Jun-2017 19:58

Fred99:

Interesting how the usual right-wing folks in this forum are behaving exactly as ISIS want them to - with no comprehension that they're being played.

Somehow I beg to differ. The elimination of Israel first and foremost, followed closely by elimiation of non believers (there's a word for it) from the face of the earth is the basis of the doctrine of said religion. There is no two ways about it. It just is. I have not been to a mosque, but I have flatted with 3 muslims from pretty well to do background. I've had pretty good conversations with them. Oh and I forgot to mention I lived in a muslim country for 18 years. [Just go to youtube to find ex-muslims explaining why they left islam -maybe I'll find some to link]

Maybe the doctrine needs to change.

Those who practice peace is not following the doctrine.

Perhaps the doctrine has changed? I don't know - the supreme council of said religion has not made any declarations of such, nor condemnation of said acts. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

PS religion haters I do not hate religion and there is no way you are going to convince me that banning religion in general is going to do anything, it's like trying to ban thinking

shk292

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#1794636 4-Jun-2017 20:04

joker97:

Stopping immigration - as far as I know, attacks have so far been carried out by local citizens.

For a given value of "local". Few if any of the perpetrators of these attacks had ancestors living in their host countries before 30-40 years ago.

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#1794639 4-Jun-2017 20:07

shk292:

joker97:

Stopping immigration - as far as I know, attacks have so far been carried out by local citizens.

For a given value of "local". Few if any of the perpetrators of these attacks had ancestors living in their host countries before 30-40 years ago.

Perhaps if said countries had not colonized and enslaved the whole world 300-400 years ago they wouldn't have brought them back in chains to wipe their asses under the crack of their masters' whip, thus cementing their presence as local citizens not 30-40 years ago.

After which, 30-40 years ago policies were of segregation and being treated as second class citizens thus causing hatred to be built against their white masters perhaps? Don't know - didn't study politics. But did study history.

Geektastic

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#1794648 4-Jun-2017 20:30

networkn:
Geektastic: Two confirmed dead so far.

From the Telegraph

A series of co-ordinated terror attacks have hit London in three different areas, with reports of dozens of casualties from stabbings and pedestrians mown down by a vehicle.

The London Bridge area was in lockdown after witnesses said 20 people were run down by a van and pedestrians were attacked with knives at 10.08pm.

There were also multiple reports of rapid gunfire in what one witness described as “Westminster all over again”.

We are one week from being there, and would have been at one of those two locations. It's getting scary!

Maybe time to test the cancellation cover on your travel policy....

shk292

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#1794649 4-Jun-2017 20:38

joker97:

Perhaps if said countries had not colonized and enslaved the whole world 300-400 years ago they wouldn't have brought them back in chains to wipe their asses under the crack of their masters' whip, thus cementing their presence as local citizens not 30-40 years ago.

After which, 30-40 years ago policies were of segregation and being treated as second class citizens thus causing hatred to be built against their white masters perhaps? Don't know - didn't study politics. But did study history.

Ah, OK, so we just need to build a time machine, go back 300-400 years, stop colonisation and all will be sweet. Sounds simple.

Any other cunning plans?

Fred99

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#1794650 4-Jun-2017 20:40

joker97:

The elimination of Israel first and foremost, followed closely by elimiation of non believers (there's a word for it) from the face of the earth is the basis of the doctrine of said religion.

"The basis"? Nonsense.

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BarTender

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#1794651 4-Jun-2017 20:56

shk292:

Someone remind me what the left-wing solution is? Do a Merkel, and bring a million migrants from Muslim countries into your home country, while hoping that none of them are extremists, will become extremists or will spawn someone who will become an extremist?

Or do we just keep having peace vigils and changing our facebook profile pictures with some inane backdrop, hoping that will stop ISIS dead in its tracks?

PS, I can't think of a good solution, just curious to be enlightened.

I have a few suggestions.

1) Move away from being so dependant on oil. How many 9/11 bombers were Saudi's? Yet is Saudi on the list of banned countries to the US? Everyone knows Iraq was about Oil. Not dependant on oil you wouldn't be busy overthrowing countries on flimsy evidence.

2) Stop bombing other places then leaving them or handing billions over US contractors to rebuild yet the country is still in a mess.

3) Sort out Israel and Palestine, perhaps telling the Israeli government they really can't keep on bulldozing peoples homes and leaving a whole population in an open air prison as it doesn't make people happy.

4) Improve mental health services. Far too many deranged people find similarly deranged people on the internet and get co-opted into killing others.

Instead of calling them terrorists called them f..king nutjobs. That way you take away any sense of power or martyrdom and are pitied for being the pathetic messed up creatures that they are.

Fred99

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#1794652 4-Jun-2017 20:56

Geektastic:
networkn:

Geektastic: Two confirmed dead so far.

From the Telegraph

A series of co-ordinated terror attacks have hit London in three different areas, with reports of dozens of casualties from stabbings and pedestrians mown down by a vehicle.

The London Bridge area was in lockdown after witnesses said 20 people were run down by a van and pedestrians were attacked with knives at 10.08pm.

There were also multiple reports of rapid gunfire in what one witness described as “Westminster all over again”.

We are one week from being there, and would have been at one of those two locations. It's getting scary!

Maybe time to test the cancellation cover on your travel policy....

Do you want to bother burdening me with the task of showing how silly that is.

I expect that compared with say 30 years ago, the chance of sudden unexpected death is lower from the drive to the airport, the flights, and the entire stay in the UK.

networkn

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#1794653 4-Jun-2017 20:56

Geektastic:
networkn:

Geektastic: Two confirmed dead so far.

From the Telegraph

A series of co-ordinated terror attacks have hit London in three different areas, with reports of dozens of casualties from stabbings and pedestrians mown down by a vehicle.

The London Bridge area was in lockdown after witnesses said 20 people were run down by a van and pedestrians were attacked with knives at 10.08pm.

There were also multiple reports of rapid gunfire in what one witness described as “Westminster all over again”.

We are one week from being there, and would have been at one of those two locations. It's getting scary!

Maybe time to test the cancellation cover on your travel policy....

Nope, then the terrorists win. We will be taking extra precautions whilst over there, but ultimately, you can't control every situation.

Batman

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#1794654 4-Jun-2017 21:01

Fred99:

joker97:

The elimination of Israel first and foremost, followed closely by elimiation of non believers (there's a word for it) from the face of the earth is the basis of the doctrine of said religion.

"The basis"? Nonsense.

I admit I'm not a scholar of Islam, but hey these guys that I flatted with, they go to the local gathering, I ask them very sincere questions, they gave me very sincere answers!

Edit: those who want to hear some youtube stuff - youtube this lady called brigitte gabriel, she explains the basis of islam in a few videos; obviously that's debatable unless we have some Islamic scholars here to enlighten us

Note I'm not making these things up, I lived among muslims for 18 years, lived with 3 for 2 years under the same roof, so n=3

1 of them have no trouble blowing up people if "called" to it

1 of them would strongly consider but not sure if he'd do it

1 of them thinks that's a crazy thing to do

I have not kept in touch with them however ... to see if they have changed since they left the local gathering

Fred99

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#1794655 4-Jun-2017 21:03

Saudi Arabia presents a classic example of corrupt right-wing thinking.

On one hand - "all Muslims are potential terrorists". On the other - "hey - lets sell them a few hundred billion $$$ worth of weapons - "MAGA".

Wahhabism is close to ISIL's ideology.

Fred99

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#1794656 4-Jun-2017 21:06

joker97:

Fred99:

joker97:

The elimination of Israel first and foremost, followed closely by elimiation of non believers (there's a word for it) from the face of the earth is the basis of the doctrine of said religion.

"The basis"? Nonsense.

I admit I'm not a scholar of Islam, but hey these guys that I flatted with, they go to the local gathering, I ask them very sincere questions, they gave me very sincere answers!

And where were they from - and why did they feel that way?

20% of Israelis are Muslim.

Batman

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#1794657 4-Jun-2017 21:12

Fred99:

joker97:

Fred99:

joker97:

The elimination of Israel first and foremost, followed closely by elimiation of non believers (there's a word for it) from the face of the earth is the basis of the doctrine of said religion.

"The basis"? Nonsense.

I admit I'm not a scholar of Islam, but hey these guys that I flatted with, they go to the local gathering, I ask them very sincere questions, they gave me very sincere answers!

And where were they from - and why did they feel that way?

20% of Israelis are Muslim.

Won't say where they're from. Far away from the middle east is all I'll say.

Why did they feel that way? That's what they've been taught since the day they were born by their local educators and their community. Unless they're lying to me. No internet in those days remember.

Rikkitic

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#1794659 4-Jun-2017 21:39

shk292:

Someone remind me what the left-wing solution is? Do a Merkel, and bring a million migrants from Muslim countries into your home country, while hoping that none of them are extremists, will become extremists or will spawn someone who will become an extremist?

Or do we just keep having peace vigils and changing our facebook profile pictures with some inane backdrop, hoping that will stop ISIS dead in its tracks?

PS, I can't think of a good solution, just curious to be enlightened.

The solution is the same as the solution to gang violence, drug abuse and other social ills. Those on top need to share with those on the bottom. Fork out for decent housing, good policing, one-on-one mentoring, free meaningful education and real jobs at the end, give those who would otherwise be alienated a stake in society so they don't want to tear it down, make it possible for everyone to have a dream and fulfil it instead of having to survive on dead-end zombie jobs flipping hamburgers. All this could happen if people weren't so damned selfish. No-one wants to give up their piece of the pie for the greater good.

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