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#2456515 7-Apr-2020 15:48

networkn:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12323143

This is a monumental mess. I do understand the magnitude of what the Government has tried to do, but the communication on various fronts has been awful.

And the waste of food. An as example there was green grocer interviewed from the West Coast. He had about $25k of stock when lock down started. He tried giving it away - told by the CD that he couldn't. Tried giving it the Sallies for food parcels. They were told they had to disinfect and wash it before delivering, which they couldn't do. Produce intended for green grocers can't necessarily be diverted to Supermarkets, as they may not have the logistics in place to handle the extra volume.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/120740175/lockdown-shop-owner-left-with-no-option-but-to-let-25000-worth-of-produce-rot

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#2456534 7-Apr-2020 16:14

MikeAqua:

networkn:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12323143

This is a monumental mess. I do understand the magnitude of what the Government has tried to do, but the communication on various fronts has been awful.

And the waste of food. An as example there was green grocer interviewed from the West Coast. He had about $25k of stock when lock down started. He tried giving it away - told by the CD that he couldn't. Tried giving it the Sallies for food parcels. They were told they had to disinfect and wash it before delivering, which they couldn't do. Produce intended for green grocers can't necessarily be diverted to Supermarkets, as they may not have the logistics in place to handle the extra volume.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/120740175/lockdown-shop-owner-left-with-no-option-but-to-let-25000-worth-of-produce-rot

A local butcher in my area said he had around $22k of stock and wanted to give it away, wasn't allowed, he was pretty distressed.

elpenguino

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#2456990 8-Apr-2020 11:38

networkn:

MikeAqua:

And the waste of food.

A local butcher in my area said he had around $22k of stock and wanted to give it away, wasn't allowed, he was pretty distressed.

What's more important?

Beat this thing or waste some food?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2456992 8-Apr-2020 11:41

elpenguino:

What's more important?

Beat this thing or waste some food?

They aren't mutually exclusive. The Government could have handled communication (much) better, and delayed the level 4 lockdown to COB Friday.

dejadeadnz

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#2457002 8-Apr-2020 12:05

Who cares - in the grand scheme of things, I'd much rather err on the side of caution and gotten on with the lockdown ASAP. Very glad the government did so. People really need to find something else to cry about.

elpenguino

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#2457010 8-Apr-2020 12:17

networkn:

elpenguino:

What's more important?

Beat this thing or waste some food?

They aren't mutually exclusive. The Government could have handled communication (much) better, and delayed the level 4 lockdown to COB Friday.

It's soooo easy for you to sit safely at home weeks after the event and say that.

Would the government be criticised for not acting quicker if they had delayed lockdown? You betcha.

You try coordinating a national response to a pandemic where there is a very real threat to people's lives and see if a couple of things don't slip through the cracks.

Don't forget some of these traders deliberately stocked up before lockdown trading conditions were known, hoping to cash in on the situation. That's the risks of business.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/butchers-forced-to-give-away-throw-out-piles-of-meat-after-essential-business-mixed-messages/ar-BB11ITZM

'Mike Hanson of Netherby Meats had stocked up for the lockdown '

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2457304 8-Apr-2020 13:02

Actually, they did that because early indications were that the Government was going to allow butcheries to stay open. Based on the demand for other food items it seemed prudent to have more than usual stock. Then they were considered non-essential and told to close, and then JA herself mentioned it was her expectations butcheries could handle phone orders and online deliveries, despite MBIE's official stance, being they couldn't (and not even mentioning some butcheries were open online and got permission specifically afterwards).

Sure, this is a tough situation, no-one is denying it, but that is their JOB. Just because it's hard, shouldn't mean they are immune to criticism.

I've had positive stuff to say about this lockdown and the things that have been done well as well.

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Technofreak

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#2457312 8-Apr-2020 13:21

If supermarkets are allowed to be classed as essential (mainly because they sell food) I cannot for the life of me see why butchers and greengrocers were not in the same category.

I see dairies are open, so even more reason for allowing people like butchers and greengrocers who are selling perishable goods to be open.

The whole classification of who/what was essential was rather badly handled. For many businesses/industries clarification wasn't available till the lock down was in place or there was not sufficient time to make arrangements for perishable stock.

If I was a butcher or greengrocer I would have expected to be in the same category as a supermarket and I would have been planning accordingly. To have been given an indication they were to be essential then have the rug pulled from under their feet is grossly unfair.

It was mentioned to me in the last couple of days that the people setting the rules only thought about urban/city situations, probably as that's all they are familiar with. There wasn't a lot of thought given to smaller rural centres. Places that are more likely to have a local butcher/greengrocer than a supermarket.

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Technofreak

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#2457320 8-Apr-2020 13:36

dejadeadnz:

Who cares - in the grand scheme of things, I'd much rather err on the side of caution and gotten on with the lockdown ASAP. Very glad the government did so. People really need to find something else to cry about.

This virus didn't start in New Zealand it was brought here by visitors and returning New Zealanders.

The government has been slow to act and very lax with respect to border controls around monitoring incoming passengers whether they were visitors or returning New Zealanders . We should have shut our borders to visitors much much sooner. Yes this would have cost us economically but not to the extent we are now faced with with a level 4 shutdown.

If we had been much more proactive in this regard early on I believe we may not have needed to go to a level 4 lock down or perhaps even level 3. The leadership on this crisis has been somewhat lacking in my opinion.

As it is now there still isn't strict enough monitoring of the people entering New Zealand. Also the tracing systems in place for following up on potential infections from various clusters is inadequate.

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GV27

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#2457389 8-Apr-2020 14:42

elpenguino:

That's the risks of business.

Ah yes, the once in a lifetime economic downtown, caused by a pandemic specifically excluded in most business interruption insurance plans and mixed messaging from the Government on who is and who isn't an essential service provider is definitely something every business should contemplate as a reasonable and likely eventuality.

There is no cashflow model known that forecasts literally no revenue for an entire month - I have never seen anyone who wasn't exiting a business prepare for a literal month of no income with three days' notice. Let me be clear: this is not a reasonable risk of business. The fact it has not happened before in many people's lifetimes should give you an idea of how unreasonable your point is.

But sure, spew bile on the butchers who thought they would be essential in the absence of proper guidance from Government instead of the designer stores selling $700 dressing gowns under the auspices of 'winter clothing'.

Fred99

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#2457410 8-Apr-2020 14:48

Technofreak:

If supermarkets are allowed to be classed as essential (mainly because they sell food) I cannot for the life of me see why butchers and greengrocers were not in the same category.

It's actually dead simple.

If you go to a supermarket and either contract C-19 or pass on C-19, then contact tracing is limited to the supermarket and you. If you go to a greengrocer, a bakery, a butcher, and the supermarket - then the risk is higher and tracing and thus containment is MUCH more difficult.

Most people seem to get it without needing that level of explanation.

Fred99

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#2457422 8-Apr-2020 14:52

Technofreak:

As it is now there still isn't strict enough monitoring of the people entering New Zealand. Also the tracing systems in place for following up on potential infections from various clusters is inadequate.

Says someone sitting anonymously from behind a keyboard. Maybe you should listen to Ashley Bloomfield's daily press conferences.

You've been arguing that it's unfair to limit businesses - as if you want to turn something already very difficult into something impossible.

Technofreak

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#2457481 8-Apr-2020 15:13

Fred99:

Technofreak:

If supermarkets are allowed to be classed as essential (mainly because they sell food) I cannot for the life of me see why butchers and greengrocers were not in the same category.

It's actually dead simple.

If you go to a supermarket and either contract C-19 or pass on C-19, then contact tracing is limited to the supermarket and you. If you go to a greengrocer, a bakery, a butcher, and the supermarket - then the risk is higher and tracing and thus containment is MUCH more difficult.

Most people seem to get it without needing that level of explanation.

Thanks for being so patronising.

Lets look at the facts.

The spread of Covid-19 hasn't been spread through people shopping at supermarkets or the like, that's not to say the hasn't been any infections attributed to that sort of shopping but the numbers, if any, are extremely low. The supermarkets have introduced processes to help prevent the spread of Covid-19, just like I have observed at the two dairies close to where I live. I see no reason why the same could not have been applied for butchers and greengrocers.

Using your logic perhaps we should only open a few supermarkets to reduce the number of places where tracing would need to be carried out from.

To show how farcical this whole situation is we have liquor stores deemed as essential and as noted above stores selling luxury dressing gowns.

Something isn't right with this picture.

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Technofreak

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#2457491 8-Apr-2020 15:25

Fred99:

Technofreak:

As it is now there still isn't strict enough monitoring of the people entering New Zealand. Also the tracing systems in place for following up on potential infections from various clusters is inadequate.

Says someone sitting anonymously from behind a keyboard. Maybe you should listen to Ashley Bloomfield's daily press conferences.

You've been arguing that it's unfair to limit businesses - as if you want to turn something already very difficult into something impossible.

Just as anonymous as your good self.

It may well be difficult but it's absolutely crucial to do the utmost to cut off the primary source of the infections. I'm sorry handing out leaflets at the border didn't really cut it. There was too many reports from arriving passengers about how lax the controls were.

The Prime Minister is reported today as considering stricter measures for monitoring people arriving in New Zealand. Why is this still being considered? It should be a given.

When it comes to tracing potential infections, do you consider it acceptable that the Southern DHB admitted they had no idea where all of the people had dispersed to after the wedding at Bluff?

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Fred99

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#2457511 8-Apr-2020 15:40

Technofreak:

The Prime Minister is reported today as considering stricter measures for monitoring people arriving in New Zealand. Why is this still being considered? It should be a given.

When it comes to tracing potential infections, do you consider it acceptable that the Southern DHB admitted they had no idea where all of the people had dispersed to after the wedding at Bluff?

There were many tens of thousands of NZers returning. There was nowhere to put them "locked up" / quarantined isolated from the public and isolated from each other for weeks.

I have no idea about the SDHB and contact tracing, they seemed to be playing catch-up. Presumably mainly young and typically mobile/social people and probably the same as for the St Patrick's day party in Matamata. ~80 cases from one index case. That's why we've got lock-down, and so far it's working, both in reduction of new imported cases and containment of clusters.

The government is doing a very good job and is well led by the PM and DG of Health. Other politicians - maybe not so much, two dreadful examples of people being dickheads from both main parties.

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