The politicisation of NZ's covid response

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Forums › Politics › The politicisation of NZ's covid response

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Max
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#2865074 10-Feb-2022 21:59

Paul we are all well aware of the reasons why they are doing it. Some of it is because they are sheep who cannot think for themselves, do not trust science, do not trust the government and are having a tantrum because they got riled up by Tamaki who originally started the protests. Also they're all lunatics.

You're fighting a losing battle trying to help others understand.

It's going to come down to two things.

1. They get COVID and maybe be hospitalised, realise that they made a huge mistake, get vaccinated and realized they should have trusted the science, the government and the people who cut them off and the businesses who turned them away.

2. They lose a loved one to COVID and they realise that they made a mistake.

I cannot sugar coat it and I also in my own opinion. Don't give a damn about those protestors or any anti vaxx anti government crap. My religious brother in law and his wife don't get any leeway with anyone anymore and sooner or later he's going to lose their job and realise he can't get on the benefit(owns too much capital), can't get a job anywhere else and screw his and his family's lives over and he will figure out why this all happened.

I know who, what and why the protestors are like. My religious brother in law went to the one on papanui road a few weeks back in his god damn work ute.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss and I ignore the anti vaxx and anti government crap for a good reason.

Ramblings from a mysterious lady who's into tech. Warning I may often create zingers.

Paul1977

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#2865078 10-Feb-2022 22:15

MaxineN: There are lots of reasons for why a street might be blocked beyond protesting. The solution is to deal with it and go around, glad you don't defend the violence or harassment but haven't really apologized(it wasn't just the pride example you lumped anti racism protests in there for some reason) and if they have permits then it's fair game. This isn't what's happening here and the parliament protests we've been seeing the last few days are idiots and selfish pricks who have no care and do not want a debate. They're going to get themselves arrested(at least 120 of them have) and we're just going to go ahead with our lives without them. They're a very small group compared to the team of 5 million who made a damn good effort to keep safe and protect ourselves. We're not too far tolerant. We just wanna get on with life.

The fact that there are lots of reasons a road can be blocked was exactly my point, but no-one says that it’s trampling their rights.

I am sorry that you were offended by what I said, but I don’t see that what I said was objectively offensive.

Paul1977

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#2865081 10-Feb-2022 22:26

@MaxineN At least we can agree that Tamaki is a sleazy snake oil salesman.

GV27

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#2865113 11-Feb-2022 07:05

I'm guessing the police will want this cleared today before more dickheads join over the weekend.

quickymart

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#2865117 11-Feb-2022 07:15

Hope so. These people are very much in the minority.

Also this:

https://twitter.com/SeanPlunket/status/1490895324193325058?cxt=HHwWhICsvb7Z3LApAAAA

If you think it's so sad Sean, why don't you head down there and join the rabid antivaxxers and their misinformation, which most of their crap is based upon? I suppose you're not vaccinated either?

Also, lol at Liz Gunn getting involved. She's still clamoring for attention, so I suppose it was only a matter of time until she turned up. Sad really - I would call this a massive fall from grace for her.

tdgeek

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#2865122 11-Feb-2022 07:32

Paul1977:

What about a pride parade that closes off streets? You can argue that a parade has the appropriate permits, but it’s still preventing your access to a public street. Is that “trampling” on your rights?

Would you feel the same way about an anti-racism protest that blocked a public street?

A permit is based on appropriate access to any required amenties

If an anti racism protest blocked a street the authorities would correct that, and that would probably not involve protester violence, intimidation, mass arrests, throwing eggs at young girls and the myriad of other Trump supporter like deviances that this protest has shown

tdgeek

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#2865124 11-Feb-2022 07:40

Paul1977:

Of course the Government can't predict the future, but I can understand why many have lost faith in what they're told.

Thats the thing, this whole pandemic has been run on the fly by every country, and as time goes on, things are learned about the virus and the vaccines and PPE

Too many people want a date and time they can lock in their diary, but for patently obvious reasons that's not possible. Then, because some people don't get what they want, they blame xyz

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tdgeek

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#2865125 11-Feb-2022 07:44

MaxineN:

(it wasn't just the pride example you lumped anti racism protests in there for some reason)

That's what irked me. IMO an anti racism or pride protest is a protest for a good thing. We dont want racism and we do want gender equality. But to lump that in with a protest that is anti pandemic protection of health measures???

GV27

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#2865126 11-Feb-2022 07:45

I have precisely zero time for the Govt response given the obfuscation and evasion around things like border testing, RAT rollouts, contact tracing systems that weren't up to scratch, etc.

That doesn't mean I get to shut-down a public space and make up a bunch of garbage about Covid, or abuse members of the general public for complying with public health orders.

You keep defending the people who are telling journalists they should be tried for treason and who are ranting on national TV about leaving their partners for getting a booster, I'll just sit here and keep hoping they send in tanks to deal with them.

Zigg

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#2865143 11-Feb-2022 09:00

GV27:
I'm guessing the police will want this cleared today before more dickheads join over the weekend.

A local traffic update page said there's another mob on their way from Gisborne, meet up at Bulls and head down from there at 1:30 today... ughh

GV27

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#2865155 11-Feb-2022 09:30

Also apparently quite a few young children in the crowd bought along by parents which drastically changes the nature of what police can do.

Paul1977

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#2865171 11-Feb-2022 09:47

tdgeek:

That's what irked me. IMO an anti racism or pride protest is a protest for a good thing. We dont want racism and we do want gender equality. But to lump that in with a protest that is anti pandemic protection of health measures???

In my opinion too, and that is EXACTLY my point. You can't say it's OK to protest about X because you agree with it, but not OK to protest about Y because you don't. Everyone who protests believe they're fighting for a just cause.

You can absolutely object to how the protest is happening, as long as the rules are the same for every protest.

Most contributors here seem to conflate my belief in their right to protest with agreement of everything they're protesting, or as a defense of some of the protesters abhorrent behavior. But that's simply not the case.

Do I condone a violent protest? No.
Do I condone harassment or abuse of innocent bystanders? No.
Do I agree with their anti-vax beliefs? No.
Do I agree with their anti-mandate beliefs? I'm honestly not sure, I don't think it's as simple a topic as many seem to believe.
Do I believe that a protest has to be somewhat disruptive to have any impact? Yes (noting that disruptive doesn't mean violent).

Ryan Bridge on the AM show summed up by feelings quite well this morning (paraphrasing): "I'm not saying I agree with the protesters, but I can understand someone being angry having lost their job because of their beliefs", and Melissa Chan-Green added (paraphrasing): "And some of them are being peaceful".

Anyway, this will my my last post on the topic of the protesters. If my point hasn't been understood by now, it never will be. If my point is understood, but people think I'm wrong, then I'm happy to agree to disagree.

tdgeek

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#2865173 11-Feb-2022 09:53

Paul1977:

tdgeek:

That's what irked me. IMO an anti racism or pride protest is a protest for a good thing. We dont want racism and we do want gender equality. But to lump that in with a protest that is anti pandemic protection of health measures???

In my opinion too, and that is EXACTLY my point. You can't say it's OK to protest about X because you agree with it, but not OK to protest about Y because you don't. Everyone who protests believe they're fighting for a just cause.

I don't think anyone is saying you can protest about this, but not that, its HOW you protest, as has been stated here often

GV27

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#2865246 11-Feb-2022 10:33

Also, just because you are protesting something, it doesn't mean your opinion is valid or needs to be respected.

I have the right and point and laugh and call these people dickheads too.

invisibleman18

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#2865275 11-Feb-2022 11:14

gzt:
With regard to the vehicles imo it's appropriate there is a little bit of tolerance in relation to the protest. However, I suspect you'll find some tickets have been issued and there will be more if there are specific issues.

Fine. They've now had 3+ days of illegal parking and have said they won't pay tickets anyway so tow them. Given they are "anti-mandate" presumably many of them won't have current WOFs or registrations either as they don't want to be told they have to do something so issue those fines too. I have an appointment in the CBD this afternoon and parking nearby is a bit of a nightmare. Can I just, say, leave my car in the middle of one the lanes in Willis Street and put a sign on it saying "I'm protesting" and it will be fine for the hour I'm away from it?

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