Our new coalition government.

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#2511893 25-Jun-2020 07:44

Handle9:

The good old Greens are a one issue party strawman.

For some reason no one ever says that ACT should go in that direction, Labour should only represent unions or National should only represent nationalists.

Well what are they then? Would have thought they'd been a lot more vocal about a massive public transport project stalling for both environmental and social reasons.

Or was weed decriminalisation just more important?

Fred99

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#2511904 25-Jun-2020 08:06

networkn:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/419117/students-motivated-to-enrol-by-fees-free-policy-struggle-with-university-research-finds

Gee, who'd of thunk it?

Everybody would have thought it - but it's not a reason to not offer fee-free tertiary education.

The headline also misrepresents the content of the article - which mainly refutes the significance of any trend identified.

That said, I think "the problem" with access to higher education starts much earlier, if you want to see a real trend then you could probably pick the students who won't perform well at school (then university) when they start kindergarten. Then for a lot of kids, it just gets worse for the next 13 years.

GV27

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#2511960 25-Jun-2020 08:35

Fred99:

That said, I think "the problem" with access to higher education starts much earlier, if you want to see a real trend then you could probably pick the students who won't perform well at school (then university) when they start kindergarten. Then for a lot of kids, it just gets worse for the next 13 years.

Nationalise Plunket by force IMO.

OldGeek

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#2512030 25-Jun-2020 10:25

Handle9:

The good old Greens are a one issue party strawman.

For some reason no one ever says that ACT should go in that direction, Labour should only represent unions or National should only represent nationalists.

Act has never ruled out working with any other party, but besides that they are not named for a cause like the Greens. Labour and National are major parties so never in the same position as the Greens.

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MikeAqua

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#2512048 25-Jun-2020 10:56

Every bit of leadership training or mentoring that I have ever received has emphasised the following: -

Lead by example
Own the mistakes yourself
Give your team the credit for successes
Praise in public
'Scold' in private

The opposite set of behaviours from leaders is generally considered toxic.

What leadership course did Ardern and Clark go to?

Mike

networkn

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#2512049 25-Jun-2020 10:59

MikeAqua:

Every bit of leadership training or mentoring that I have ever received has emphasised the following: -

Lead by example
Own the mistakes yourself
Give your team the credit for successes
Praise in public
'Scold' in private
The opposite set of behaviours from leaders is generally considered toxic.

What leadership course did Ardern and Clark go to?

Ardern gets a lot of praise for her ability in the "big" moments, but in my view, the "big" moments are the one she is failing to handle properly right now.

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Fred99

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#2512104 25-Jun-2020 12:43

networkn:

MikeAqua:

Every bit of leadership training or mentoring that I have ever received has emphasised the following: -

Lead by example
Own the mistakes yourself
Give your team the credit for successes
Praise in public
'Scold' in private
The opposite set of behaviours from leaders is generally considered toxic.

What leadership course did Ardern and Clark go to?

Ardern gets a lot of praise for her ability in the "big" moments, but in my view, the "big" moments are the one she is failing to handle properly right now.

I assume the comment was directed at / about the Health Minister - not the PM.

(Business) management leadership training may not be much use in politics. Actually I'm not sure it's much use for anything - seems to go in one ear and out the other for the people who'd most need it.

MikeAqua

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#2512114 25-Jun-2020 13:01

Fred99:

I assume the comment was directed at / about the Health Minister - not the PM.

(Business) management leadership training may not be much use in politics. Actually I'm not sure it's much use for anything - seems to go in one ear and out the other for the people who'd most need it.

Leadership training I've experienced has been generally applicable within business (of course), crisis management (e.g. accident scene), sport, relationships, parenting, dealing with builder electricians etc at home, working with volunteers, negotiating for products and services outside of work and some hobby stuff as well. The principles are the same regardless of context. If leadership training has no application in politics then there is no leadership there.

Clark and Ardern are the governance layer of the Ministry of Health. They should be accountable for that reason and also (perhaps more so) because they have been prepared to milk every ounce of glory they could from the success of lockdown etc. They might be fooling each other with this buck passing behaviour but I doubt they are fooling the electorate. I have genuinely lost some respect for Ardern over this.

Mike

Fred99

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#2512140 25-Jun-2020 13:30

MikeAqua:

I have genuinely lost some respect for Ardern over this.

Your words:

Praise in public
'Scold' in private

What's it going to be - or do you have access to what's going on in private?

I'd be surprised if Clark has a future in politics. The "DCM" would have applied in business, but an electorate MP can't be "fired".

He should "do the right thing" and fall on his sword. Getting rid of him will be messy.

GV27

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#2512147 25-Jun-2020 13:37

Fred99:

He should "do the right thing" and fall on his sword. Getting rid of him will be messy.

Why? "He has fallen short of expectations and it's no longer possible to have a constructive relationship between himself and the ministry at a vital time in our Covid19 response". I mean... just say that and give him the arse as a Minister.

Makes Ardern look decisive and at makes the 'dead wood' argument harder for National to peddle come election time.

Seems like a win win?

Handle9

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#2512189 25-Jun-2020 14:54

OldGeek:
Handle9:

The good old Greens are a one issue party strawman.

For some reason no one ever says that ACT should go in that direction, Labour should only represent unions or National should only represent nationalists.

Act has never ruled out working with any other party, but besides that they are not named for a cause like the Greens. Labour and National are major parties so never in the same position as the Greens.

So by your logic NZ first should only be about xenophobia and act should only address issues for consumers and tax payers?

It's a daft argument that only gets applied to the Greens. Green party can mean whatever the party members and mps choose not what right wingers who are desperate for more coalition partners wished it meant.

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Handle9

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#2512191 25-Jun-2020 14:55

GV27:
Handle9:

The good old Greens are a one issue party strawman.

For some reason no one ever says that ACT should go in that direction, Labour should only represent unions or National should only represent nationalists.

Well what are they then? Would have thought they'd been a lot more vocal about a massive public transport project stalling for both environmental and social reasons.

Or was weed decriminalisation just more important?

I don't follow your logic. The two topics aren't linked.

gzt

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#2512255 25-Jun-2020 15:12

Fred99: That said, I think "the problem" with access to higher education starts much earlier, if you want to see a real trend then you could probably pick the students who won't perform well at school (then university) when they start kindergarten. Then for a lot of kids, it just gets worse for the next 13 years.

There are all kinds of problems. Imo the housing issue has been a hidden factor in student housing for many years, particularly in Auckland.

GV27

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#2512267 25-Jun-2020 15:20

Handle9:

I don't follow your logic. The two topics aren't linked.

One of these things got a lot more attention than the other over the last few years from the Greens.

They went from circulating petitions for Heavy Rail to the North Shore in opposition to almost total silence on Auckland transport issues, despite having an associate minister covering the portfolio.

Handle9

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#2512273 25-Jun-2020 15:22

GV27:
Handle9:

I don't follow your logic. The two topics aren't linked.

One of these things got a lot more attention than the other over the last few years from the Greens.

They went from circulating petitions for Heavy Rail to the North Shore in opposition to almost total silence on Auckland transport issues, despite having an associate minister covering the portfolio.

What does that have to do with what I posted?

I was talking about the Greens being a single issue party.

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