Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3375719 22-May-2025 17:04

SaltyNZ:

freitasm:

Thanks, Luxon.

We now will have less money in pockets, thanks to increase of minimum Kiwisaver from 3% to 4%, and less money in the future with decreasing government contribution to $260.72/year.

But let's give business "a tax incentive, worth $1.7b a year, for businesses."

Thats ok though, because in return we’re getting [checks notes] nothing at all.

yep, we get the same from each budget regardless of who presents it. My only hope is that the budget allows for money to flow to the areas that need it the most, health and education

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#3375772 22-May-2025 18:26

sen8or:

I don't mean that to be as pointed as it probably reads, but people can do something about their own situation, particularly if they feel they are being under paid for their skills / experience. If people choose to accept working for less than they may be worth in an open market, then thats their decision?

No, it's a fair point, and you're right: but that is after having had 2 job changes (i.e. she is in her third role) since returning to the work force, with a pay increase each time. The system is still stacked against her.

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Ge0rge

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#3375774 22-May-2025 18:41

Is it a gender pay gap, or a gender earning potential gap?

Where I work, we have pay scales. Where you sit on the scales depends on how long you have been with the firm, what courses you have done and the skills you have been objectively tested as having. The scales have no "male" or "female" column. There simply cannot be a gender pay gap under this system. If you've done the same time, same courses, same qualifications as anyone else, regardless of gender, you will get paid the same as them.

Where an earning potential gap can occur however, is if someone takes a period of time off, such as unpaid leave or parental leave. That time away doesn't count as experience, and thus your contemporaries will move up the pay scales while you take a pause during the time on leave. Traditionally, it is the mother that takes parental leave (although we are seeing more and more dads take time off) which means when they come back to work, they pick up where they left off, and their potential earnings differ from someone who hadn't taken a break.

It's a hard one to solve.

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#3375777 22-May-2025 19:00

Ge0rge:

Is it a gender pay gap, or a gender earning potential gap?

Where I work, we have pay scales. Where you sit on the scales depends on how long you have been with the firm, what courses you have done and the skills you have been objectively tested as having. The scales have no "male" or "female" column. There simply cannot be a gender pay gap under this system. If you've done the same time, same courses, same qualifications as anyone else, regardless of gender, you will get paid the same as them.

Where an earning potential gap can occur however, is if someone takes a period of time off, such as unpaid leave or parental leave. That time away doesn't count as experience, and thus your contemporaries will move up the pay scales while you take a pause during the time on leave. Traditionally, it is the mother that takes parental leave (although we are seeing more and more dads take time off) which means when they come back to work, they pick up where they left off, and their potential earnings differ from someone who hadn't taken a break.

It's a hard one to solve.

The pay equity in question is cross sector pay equity. The examples @saltynz has refered in this thread are unchanged by this legislation.

What this legislation addresses is where a sector historically dominated by women (eg teaching) is paid considerably less than a functionally equivalent sector (eg air traffic control) dominated by men. It's mostly affecting government sector which is why it has a significant budget effect.

There was some case law in the early 2010s which led to this and then the Ardern government legislated a process which this legislation changes, delays and in many cases eliminates.

Pay equity within a company or organisation is unchanged.

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#3375778 22-May-2025 19:00

Ge0rge:

Traditionally, it is the mother that takes parental leave (although we are seeing more and more dads take time off) which means when they come back to work, they pick up where they left off, and their potential earnings differ from someone who hadn't taken a break.

It's a hard one to solve.

That's the nub, isn't it? It may be technically true that the issue is "experience" rather than "gender" but when one gender is overwhelmingly represented as the one who has to pause their career, it is defacto a gender issue.

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#3375779 22-May-2025 19:03

sen8or:

SaltyNZ:

Same here, but none of us are teachers or social workers, who are the kind of workers greatly affected by these changes.

Counterpoint: my wife is being paid considerably less than she would be had she not taken 7 years off to be a stay at home mum when our children were young. But that was more than 10 years ago. Any performance gap due to a lack of up to date industry knowledge is long since erased.

If the market is paying considerably more for someone of your wife's skills / experience, then shouldn't she be able to get market rates? Negotiate higher pay, Change job etc?

I don't mean that to be as pointed as it probably reads, but people can do something about their own situation, particularly if they feel they are being under paid for their skills / experience. If people choose to accept working for less than they may be worth in an open market, then thats their decision?

(again, I realise it reads poorly, but can't think of how else to phrase it)

In the case cited you are at least somewhat accurate.

In the cases covered by this legislation it's not that simple as it's an industry wide suppression of earning power. There is functionally only one employer of teachers as there is only one employer of hospital nurses. The government dominates the sector with a fixed pay scale and so it's not so easy to go and get a better paying job.

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#3375780 22-May-2025 19:16

Handle9:

The pay equity in question is cross sector pay equity.

Yes, that's right, they are actually two different (but related) issues. The pay equity law change only affects government employees.

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#3375783 22-May-2025 19:27

SaltyNZ: The pay equity law change only affects government employees.

Nope. Most of the claims were in the government sector but a number were in the the funded education sector. This is largely private providers who offer ECE services.

gzt

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#3375793 22-May-2025 21:12

Ge0rge: Where I work, we have pay scales. Where you sit on the scales depends on how long you have been with the firm, what courses you have done and the skills you have been objectively tested as having. The scales have no "male" or "female" column. There simply cannot be a gender pay gap under this system. If you've done the same time, same courses, same qualifications as anyone else, regardless of gender, you will get paid the same as them.

I would confidently guess several things based on experience. 1. Your employer's system is not as rigid as you are led to claim. 2. That system and it's claimed outcomes developed under pressure of equal pay demands and legislation.

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#3375796 22-May-2025 21:30

gzt:
Ge0rge: Where I work, we have pay scales. Where you sit on the scales depends on how long you have been with the firm, what courses you have done and the skills you have been objectively tested as having. The scales have no "male" or "female" column. There simply cannot be a gender pay gap under this system. If you've done the same time, same courses, same qualifications as anyone else, regardless of gender, you will get paid the same as them.

I would confidently guess several things based on experience. 1. Your employer's system is not as rigid as you are led to claim. 2. That system and it's claimed outcomes developed under pressure of equal pay demands and legislation.

After 26 years with the firm, I am reasonably confident in stating that 1) yes it is, and 2) no it didn't.

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#3375797 22-May-2025 21:47

Ge0rge: There simply cannot be a gender pay gap under this system

Perhaps not, but there may well be pay equity problems, unless your firm is composed of only one occupation or role.

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#3375809 23-May-2025 06:23

Not much in this Budget for anyone it seems. Best Start helps if you miss out on any other form of assistance, one income is hard even on a professional salary in Auckland. The changes around this seem kind of pointless, yet another instance where the $100K seems to infer some sort of high-roller status which does not exist.

Unsure about the depreciation write-down in the first year - you need to be making money for that to really help but Australia has this and it stops people having to try and run companies on the smell of an oily rag during an important phase of the business.

Pretty crappy budget really. The country has no money, the people you need to be spending are spending that cash on servicing debt on older interest rates and it's kind of bleak out there atm. We're all sure it will get better, just not when, and that seems to be a theme of this budget.

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#3375863 23-May-2025 08:07

sen8or:

The 3 to 4% is optional (for now), so you can stay on the lower rate if you choose. Note they are also lifting the matching rate, to 3.5% next year and 4% in 2028, so employers are going to have to chip in a bit more too. I'd suggest that in many cases, the additional 1% of employers contributions will readily offset the reduction from the Govt (anyone earning about $52k at 0.5% incr in employer contribution).

Means testing for $180k upwards for the Govt contribution, this seems like a bit of a token gesture (essentially, if you are on $180k or more, I'd suggest you'll get $0 Govt contribution to KS)

This is the bottom line, majority of people actually get an increase in Kiwisaver yet those that have no idea screech they are taking my free $260 a year from me

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#3375864 23-May-2025 08:13

It seems the cross industry comparators are the real issue, what constitutes like skills?

Again, not versed well enough in this to have any more than a gut feeling opinion, but I would hazard a guess that the tasks and responsibilities and skills required of an air traffic controller are not really comparable to the tasks and responsibilities and skills required of a teacher (and, I would have thought women would make better air traffic controllers given their "multi tasking" abilities?). If we are basing it purely off "qualifications", then either our hospitality workers are woefully underpaid or our MPs are woefully overpaid, as neither requires any formal qualifications (in this case, I think both arguments can be true).

I was wrong earlier though, there is something in the budget for me - extension of the term for repeat prescriptions. I've been on blood pressure / blood thinners / statins for a few years and having to see a GP every 6 months is painful and largely a waste of mine and their time. With repeat prescriptions out to 12 months now, thats just once a year where I can run through the standard requirements, freeing up their time for patients with more pressing issues.

SaltyNZ

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#3375867 23-May-2025 08:24

JPNZ:

This is the bottom line, majority of people actually get an increase in Kiwisaver yet those that have no idea screech they are taking my free $260 a year from me

Well, they are. Actually, for us, they're not taking away our free $260, they're taking away our free $531.

And although it is true that "the employer" needs to raise Kiwisaver contributions, that simply means a lot of people will get 0.5% less pay rise for the next two years in order to compensate. Not many businesses out there that can afford to be that generous even if they want to be.

And I say that as someone who 100% agrees that that part of the policy is a good thing.

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