Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3381422 6-Jun-2025 19:22

SaltyNZ:

sen8or:

Tau Henare was also brought before the committee, but he fronted and apologised, escaping punishment, perhaps theres a lesson there for TPM - own your actions?

Tau Henare was the one who got punched. It was Trevor Mallard who did the punching. Henare called Mallard "Sharon" (which is objectively hilarious and no worse than what Winston Peters calls other MPs in every speech). But anyway - I think I've been pretty clear I think that for now at least, the exception is pretty unique to the situation.

Wasn't the punch-up outside the debating chamber?

Also it wasnt just the haka it was the two fingered gun pointed toward another member. These folk are activists and they need to know that representing the people of NZ is a privilege and that the rules of parliament apply to ALL. IMO it doesnt really matter if they got 1 weeks suspension or 4.

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#3381473 6-Jun-2025 23:58

SaltyNZ:

sen8or:

I think anything less would have been met with even more distain from TPM, they already believe they are beyond the rules and have shown contempt at every turn for the rules and processes of parliament. A slap on the wrist was never going to get the message across, and to be honest, I don't think the 21 days will either

I don't think that's correct; they attempted numerous times to engage by having experts explain tikanga to the committee, who wouldn't hear a bar of it.

You don't see them doing a haka every time they disagree with something the government is doing, which, frankly, would be nearly 100% of what this particular government has done. This was an exceptional occasion, where the bill in question would have fundamentally gutted the agreement their people made with the Crown, that very agreement being the reason there is even a Westminster parliament here to begin with.

You're probably right, 21 days won't deter them from doing it again, should the occasion arise again. It wouldn't stop me either. Nor would it stop you, I suspect, if you felt strongly enough about an issue.

Ultimately they swore an oath to represent their people. They did that, in the long traditional manner of those people. In that time, on that issue, what they did was completely appropriate.

If you read any in depth reporting of TPM they are almost astonishingly ignorant of the rules of the house and how parliament or government actually works. Their primary goal seems to be to use parliament to get sound bites to use on social media rather than it's actual purpose.

They played silly games and won silly prizes.

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#3381474 7-Jun-2025 00:01

SaltyNZ:

GV27:

It wasn't appropriate, just like it wasn't appropriate when Genter crossed the floor to get in the face of another MP.

Nobody said that was.

The key difference was Genter apologised for her conduct that she recognised was outside parliaments rules. She got a good telling off and everyone got on with their lives.

TPM did not know they were breaking the rules of the house and then refused to apologise for it.

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#3381478 7-Jun-2025 00:17

SaltyNZ:

GV27:

So which MPs do the rules of parliament apply to and which ones don't they apply to?

All of them. But clearly, exceptions can be made. Do I think a haka is appropriate when the government debates a bill to give tax breaks to landlords? No, and they would deserve a slap on the wrist for it. Do I think they should get a far harsher punishment than someone who, for example, actually punched another MP? No, that's outrageous.

EDIT: accidentally a word

There's no problem doing a haka in the house. There have been plenty of haka and Waiata in the house by MPs. There is a procedure to apply to the speaker to do so, which TPM did not follow. They YOLO'd it and then refused to appear before the privileges committee when charged for disrupting the business of the house.

They very clearly did not follow the tikanga of the house and then refused to engage with the privileges committee in the hearings. It is what it is.

gzt

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#3381560 7-Jun-2025 13:29

Respected former Speaker of the house Adrian Rurawhe has warned parliament the simple majority decision without consensus on the privileges committee may badly affect future parliaments.

As Newsroom puts it: "The committee has a tradition of reaching unanimous decisions – an acknowledgement of the influence of the committee, and the importance of reaching consensus on a decision that impacts the democratic process. But that didn’t happen in this case."

It is more than a tradition. It is constitutionally vital. The chair of the privileges committee failed to respect its own long established convention and acted against the tabled advice of the Clerk Of The House. The government majority in the house then insanely voted in favor of the report with no amendments. Luxon's words about rules ring very hollow.

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#3381604 7-Jun-2025 17:31

gzt: Respected former Speaker of the house Adrian Rurawhe has warned parliament the simple majority decision without consensus on the privileges committee may badly affect future parliaments.

As Newsroom puts it: "The committee has a tradition of reaching unanimous decisions – an acknowledgement of the influence of the committee, and the importance of reaching consensus on a decision that impacts the democratic process. But that didn’t happen in this case."

It is more than a tradition. It is constitutionally vital. The chair of the privileges committee failed to respect its own long established convention and acted against the tabled advice of the Clerk Of The House. The government majority in the house then insanely voted in favor of the report with no amendments. Luxon's words about rules ring very hollow.

I'd like to believe we have enough integrity not to go down that path, but I fear the only way to make them understand the point will be to make them understand the point when the pendulum swings, as it will sooner or later. It is certainly a candidate for one of the many reforms parliament needs.

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#3386418 23-Jun-2025 15:46

Well, all those people who voted Labour out because Three Waters was going to steal their assets and take away their local control will no doubt be thrilled to learn that the Luxon government is considering scrapping regional councils altogether. Some nice juicy local assets to nationalise there!

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freitasm

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#3386430 23-Jun-2025 16:02

As they say "it's only champagne if it's from the Champagne region in France, otherwise it's just sparkling wine" but more like "it's only bad policy if it's a labour policy, otherwise it's a big fark you from National".

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elpenguino

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#3386434 23-Jun-2025 16:32

SaltyNZ:

Well, all those people who voted Labour out because Three Waters was going to steal their assets and take away their local control will no doubt be thrilled to learn that the Luxon government is considering scrapping regional councils altogether. Some nice juicy local assets to nationalise there!

You seem to have misspelt privatise.

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sen8or

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#3386442 23-Jun-2025 16:59

Well to be fair, they make central Govt look like a model of efficiency and fiscally frugal (and that is a Govt of any flavour, not just the current one).....

GV27

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#3391437 7-Jul-2025 12:20

I like the idea of tweaking a policy setting because it isn't achieving what you campaigned on it doing.

I don't like the idea of the fact people still need assistance for daycare fees even on $240K household income still having no long-term solution, despite two working parents being the default for anyone who aspires to home ownership and kids costing around $300 a week or more in Auckland in high-growth areas before the 20 hours a week subsidy kicks in when they're older.

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SaltyNZ

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#3391698 7-Jul-2025 14:09

GV27:

I like the idea of tweaking a policy setting because it isn't achieving what you campaigned on it doing.

I don't like the idea of the fact people still need assistance for daycare fees even on $240K household income still having no long-term solution, despite two working parents being the default for anyone who aspires to home ownership and kids costing around $300 a week or more in Auckland in high-growth areas before the 20 hours a week subsidy kicks in when they're older.

Back on track, baby

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GV27

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#3392340 9-Jul-2025 13:01

SaltyNZ:

Back on track, baby

The sector was really poorly served by both parties in terms of election policy; Labour's 40 hours subsidised without clarity that it wasn't 40 hours free and centres not being able to cope with current demand, let alone any more (and there's already a pretty streak of animosity towards the for-profit providers that plug a massive gap in urban centres) vs. National's admin heavy subsidy for which centres weren't set up to carry the resulting admin burden and likewise created one for parents also and which arguably would have been better spent helping to meet demand to drive costs down for everyone - both crap policies because no one wants to acknowledge the real cost of actually working and having kids, and discussion of policy analysis dumbed down to the point where it barely exists, or is dominated by people who aren't prepared to accept their favourite team has close to no workable solution and has actually fumbled their policy in a major way.

sir1963

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#3394566 16-Jul-2025 11:45

" Luxon says outcomes matter, defends shift to private surgeries"

And I agree, what it which outcome is important.

If the outcome was to have a world class hospital system, then funding should go into that to make it work.

If the outcome was to start down that path of privatised healthcare, then the is where he is headed.

The outcome for patients is kind of the meat in the middle of this sandwich , and I do NOT want a privatised healthcare system, it will simply cost MUCH more with no real term benefits.

Stop the block of cheese tax cuts, kill of the road cone hot line waste of money, and start doing your job as to what is best for ALL kiwis irrespective of your political bias. Sacrificing the poor for the benefit of the wealthy is NOT where we need to go.

Bluntj

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#3394712 16-Jul-2025 20:20

sir1963:

" Luxon says outcomes matter, defends shift to private surgeries"

And I agree, what it which outcome is important.

If the outcome was to have a world class hospital system, then funding should go into that to make it work.

If the outcome was to start down that path of privatised healthcare, then the is where he is headed.

The outcome for patients is kind of the meat in the middle of this sandwich , and I do NOT want a privatised healthcare system, it will simply cost MUCH more with no real term benefits.

Stop the block of cheese tax cuts, kill of the road cone hot line waste of money, and start doing your job as to what is best for ALL kiwis irrespective of your political bias. Sacrificing the poor for the benefit of the wealthy is NOT where we need to go.

I may be wrong, but I thought they are using private hospitals to boost surgeries to try and reduce public lists. I didnt see it as a permanent thing.

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