Our next national election - policies, promises and people

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#2422845 18-Feb-2020 07:49

GV27:

Furthermore, those in charge of our tax system need to explain why you can be a top rate earner for income tax purposes at $70K but still eligible for WFFTC all the way up to $120K.

Of course, the person in charge of our last serious tax reform exercise famously said (in a response to a question in Parliament) that people earning over $60K and having to pay 39 cents in the dollar past that should move to Australia if they didn't like it.

I gather Bridges will help out families too, so he may in fact increase WFFTC, and tax cuts and small business benefits, and more infrastructure and no borrowing. Something has to fund all that

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#2422854 18-Feb-2020 08:12

tdgeek:

GV27:

Furthermore, those in charge of our tax system need to explain why you can be a top rate earner for income tax purposes at $70K but still eligible for WFFTC all the way up to $120K.

Of course, the person in charge of our last serious tax reform exercise famously said (in a response to a question in Parliament) that people earning over $60K and having to pay 39 cents in the dollar past that should move to Australia if they didn't like it.

I gather Bridges will help out families too, so he may in fact increase WFFTC, and tax cuts and small business benefits, and more infrastructure and no borrowing. Something has to fund all that

Maybe it will be funded by ditching several of LAbours failed policies eg kiwisaver and perhaps Pyke River costs and many many more. Mean while the tax take keeps rising with so many more each year on the high tax bracket.

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#2422861 18-Feb-2020 08:21

Mahon:

Maybe it will be funded by ditching several of LAbours failed policies eg kiwisaver and perhaps Pyke River costs and many many more. Mean while the tax take keeps rising with so many more each year on the high tax bracket.

Very true. There is a tendency to dismiss concerns about our tax rates because our top rate is low compared to other OECD countries, but this argument almost never takes into account the relative purchasing power of overseas income, or the amounts at which those higher rates overseas actually kick in.

My favourite example is the student loan repayment threshold in Australia is literally double the NZ threshold and at kicks in at a far lower rate initially. But an extremely simplistic analysis would conclude their repayment 'rate' is similar to ours because it caps out at 10%, even though you have to be earning $134K before you incur that repayment rate.

Here? 12 cents in the dollar after $20K. In a country with lower wages and arguably higher living costs.

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#2422863 18-Feb-2020 08:26

Mahon:

Maybe it will be funded by ditching several of LAbours failed policies eg kiwisaver and perhaps Pyke River costs and many many more. Mean while the tax take keeps rising with so many more each year on the high tax bracket.

KB was a rollover, its not an annual billions dollar ongoing charge. Pike River is minimal same reasons. I have no issues, but what gets spent means other stuff doesnt, thats all

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#2422866 18-Feb-2020 08:31

GV27:

Mahon:

Maybe it will be funded by ditching several of LAbours failed policies eg kiwisaver and perhaps Pyke River costs and many many more. Mean while the tax take keeps rising with so many more each year on the high tax bracket.

Very true. There is a tendency to dismiss concerns about our tax rates because our top rate is low compared to other OECD countries, but this argument almost never takes into account the relative purchasing power of overseas income, or the amounts at which those higher rates overseas actually kick in.

My favourite example is the student loan repayment threshold in Australia is literally double the NZ threshold and at kicks in at a far lower rate initially. But an extremely simplistic analysis would conclude their repayment 'rate' is similar to ours because it caps out at 10%, even though you have to be earning $134K before you incur that repayment rate.

Here? 12 cents in the dollar after $20K. In a country with lower wages and arguably higher living costs.

Again, no issue. But there seems to be a lot of spending, no borrowing thats been ruled out, so we need to find out the rest of the equation. Employment growth has been criticised too, but we are at record low unemployment, thats bizarre. The GDP needs to be raised to 3% to make NZ great again. Its 2.7 or 2.8 now and thats despite trade wars and other international headwinds. This is like labours campaign, lots of promises, no detail (ok this isnt Nationals campaign yet but its a guide), there seems to be missing extra revenue we dont yet know about

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#2422868 18-Feb-2020 08:35

GV27:

It's quite mind-boggling that our top tax rate kicks in at an income level that wouldn't get your a mortgage in Auckland.

Are you suggesting we tax people differently based on where they choose to live ?

or are you suggesting we tax based on Auckland ?

The alternative is to abandon free market principles and impose house pricing

Tell us what % of the population this actually impacts, how many people in NZ earn more than $70,000

Then tell us what percentage of the population do you think should be paying the the highest tax bracket.

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#2422872 18-Feb-2020 08:40

sir1963:

GV27:

It's quite mind-boggling that our top tax rate kicks in at an income level that wouldn't get your a mortgage in Auckland.

Are you suggesting we tax people differently based on where they choose to live ?

or are you suggesting we tax based on Auckland ?

The alternative is to abandon free market principles and impose house pricing

Tell us what % of the population this actually impacts, how many people in NZ earn more than $70,000

Then tell us what percentage of the population do you think should be paying the the highest tax bracket.

It looks like Simon will remove the foreign buyer of residential houses law/regulation.

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#2422878 18-Feb-2020 08:46

Mahon:

Maybe it will be funded by ditching several of LAbours failed policies eg kiwisaver and perhaps Pyke River costs and many many more. Mean while the tax take keeps rising with so many more each year on the high tax bracket.

Exactly how is Kiwisave a failure ?

The alternatives are :

Dump the pension

Raise the retirement age

Increase taxes

GV27

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#2422882 18-Feb-2020 08:51

sir1963:

GV27:

It's quite mind-boggling that our top tax rate kicks in at an income level that wouldn't get your a mortgage in Auckland.

Are you suggesting we tax people differently based on where they choose to live ?

or are you suggesting we tax based on Auckland ?

The alternative is to abandon free market principles and impose house pricing

Tell us what % of the population this actually impacts, how many people in NZ earn more than $70,000

Then tell us what percentage of the population do you think should be paying the the highest tax bracket.

I'm clearly not saying that. I'm saying that neglecting tax bracket inflation has left us at a point where you are taxed at a higher level on what is a relatively modest income when it comes to housing affordability.

But in case you are wondering, the country is extremely reliant on a very small group of tax payers. Something like 12% of taxpayers pay over 50% of the government's income tax take.

The percentage of a population that pay the top tax rate is arbitrary and not a useful way to design a tax system. But I do think a tax system should not tax you at the highest rate on your additional income until you're in a position to be able to afford things like housing, which clearly isn't the case now.

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#2422886 18-Feb-2020 08:57

Mahon:
Maybe it will be funded by ditching several of LAbours failed policies eg kiwisaver and perhaps Pyke River costs and many many more. Mean while the tax take keeps rising with so many more each year on the high tax bracket.

How is Kiwisaver a failure? Please explain.

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#2422888 18-Feb-2020 09:00

GV27:

I'm clearly not saying that. I'm saying that neglecting tax bracket inflation has left us at a point where you are taxed at a higher level on what is a relatively modest income when it comes to housing affordability.

But in case you are wondering, the country is extremely reliant on a very small group of tax payers. Something like 12% of taxpayers pay over 50% of the government's income tax take.

The percentage of a population that pay the top tax rate is arbitrary and not a useful way to design a tax system. But I do think a tax system should not tax you at the highest rate on your additional income until you're in a position to be able to afford things like housing, which clearly isn't the case now.

We all pay tax, its not just 12% of us that do. The tax credits you are referring to will appear to be enhanced by National, so what then? I think you need to keep Income Tax seperate from social spending, unless you advocate slashing social spending. Im not aware labour will be doing that and national is adding to it, so thats a seperate issue form Income Tax

Again, as far as Income Tax is concerned, I have no issues if we adjust the threshold. Id just like to know how that will be paid for thats all, I would hope thats part of the in future, released policy

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#2422890 18-Feb-2020 09:02

freitasm:
Mahon:

Maybe it will be funded by ditching several of LAbours failed policies eg kiwisaver and perhaps Pyke River costs and many many more. Mean while the tax take keeps rising with so many more each year on the high tax bracket.

How is Kiwisaver a failure? Please explain.

I think the desire to criticise exceeded the desire to spellcheck. Or count. If this thread is going to be more about bagging than asking the hard questions, it will be disappointing.

GV27

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#2422986 18-Feb-2020 09:33

tdgeek:

We all pay tax, its not just 12% of us that do. The tax credits you are referring to will appear to be enhanced by National, so what then? I think you need to keep Income Tax seperate from social spending, unless you advocate slashing social spending. Im not aware labour will be doing that and national is adding to it, so thats a seperate issue form Income Tax

Again, as far as Income Tax is concerned, I have no issues if we adjust the threshold. Id just like to know how that will be paid for thats all, I would hope thats part of the in future, released policy

I'm keen to see details around this too. I think knowing what 'social spending' means is important too. I'd rather spend $2bn on a massive state housing rollout than things like winter power grants for pensioners regardless of means or income.

tdgeek

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#2422995 18-Feb-2020 09:42

GV27:

tdgeek:

We all pay tax, its not just 12% of us that do. The tax credits you are referring to will appear to be enhanced by National, so what then? I think you need to keep Income Tax seperate from social spending, unless you advocate slashing social spending. Im not aware labour will be doing that and national is adding to it, so thats a seperate issue form Income Tax

Again, as far as Income Tax is concerned, I have no issues if we adjust the threshold. Id just like to know how that will be paid for thats all, I would hope thats part of the in future, released policy

I'm keen to see details around this too. I think knowing what 'social spending' means is important too. I'd rather spend $2bn on a massive state housing rollout than things like winter power grants for pensioners regardless of means or income.

Same, that why I wasnt against the last tax cuts idea from the last election, $40 per week for everybody. Are the power grants worth 2B? Ouch. I read labour has been hammering the social housing, but its not newsworthy, both parties need to continue that

GV27

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#2423011 18-Feb-2020 10:12

tdgeek:

Same, that why I wasnt against the last tax cuts idea from the last election, $40 per week for everybody. Are the power grants worth 2B? Ouch. I read labour has been hammering the social housing, but its not newsworthy, both parties need to continue that

I'd be seriously concerned if the power grants were $2b! But it was more the point 'cuts to social spending' can mean 'cutting stuff people need' like emergency housing or food grants, or it can non-discriminant parachute money regardless of actual need. I'd rather we cut stuff like that first if we're going to cut anything.

I think National has a real problem with housing credibility - even though stuff like the Tamaki Development is how we'll end up having to build new state housing, they were certainly attacked for it at the time. Bridges coming across as aloof does not help matters.

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