Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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#2862232 5-Feb-2022 15:41

rugrat:

So I don’t believe the response would’ve been the same, and do believe there would’ve been a lot more deaths under National. I see them as business interests first, including airlines etc, and then they think everything else will fall into place.

I really, really doubt Bill English would have thrown us to the wolves like people who are desperate to avoid scrutinising our government response would have us believe.

Technofreak

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#2862238 5-Feb-2022 16:05

A government of spin and obfuscation.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/127682814/when-did-our-public-service-get-so-arrogant

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SJB

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#2862240 5-Feb-2022 16:08

Same as all the other governments I have known then.

elpenguino

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#2862245 5-Feb-2022 16:26

GV27:

rugrat:

So I don’t believe the response would’ve been the same, and do believe there would’ve been a lot more deaths under National. I see them as business interests first, including airlines etc, and then they think everything else will fall into place.

I really, really doubt Bill English would have thrown us to the wolves like people who are desperate to avoid scrutinising our government response would have us believe.

While he seemed like he had some personal integrity, he was several leaders ago and precovid.

I remember the National leader (was it Collins?) at the time covid hit saying things along the line of, keep the shops open, keep the planes coming from abroad.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

elpenguino

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#2862247 5-Feb-2022 16:30

networkn:

I'd bet money National would've %@#$ed us during covid.

We are a socialist little country and our government major parties are both slightly off centre. Our tolerance for a high death toll is very low, even compared to Australia. With the same information and same choices, broad strokes I believe the response would have been fairly similar.

But that's the point isn't it. 'Other' parties would have made different choices leading to different incomes.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

rugrat

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#2862269 5-Feb-2022 17:32

networkn:

Then you can't think much of Labour right now, both based on what they said prior to being elected and what they have promised since.

Opposition opposes. Look at what Labour whinged at National for during their time in power, and then have gone on to do more of the same or worse.

National didn't have access to the same information as the Government when they were having their say, in the reverse, they would have made broadly similar decisions, because it was really the only real option.

No, I don’t think much of Labour right now. I’m leaning towards National next election. Every time I’ve voted National they have won. See if this time breaks pattern.

More for what Labour are planning to do. Redundancy scheme with $50 plus a month coming out of wages being compulsory, no individual choice. Three waters reform (Don’t know if right or not but seems to be undemocratically done.)

Also the Auckland light rail project looks like trouble, article just posted looks like they are considering charging close proximity houses another $1000 in tax’s

annually.

Things could change when time comes, but how it looks at moment. Expect to be opened up by then so COVID won’t be as much part of the decision as last election.

Technofreak

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#2862293 5-Feb-2022 19:38

elpenguino:

GV27:

I really, really doubt Bill English would have thrown us to the wolves like people who are desperate to avoid scrutinising our government response would have us believe.

While he seemed like he had some personal integrity, he was several leaders ago and precovid.

I remember the National leader (was it Collins?) at the time covid hit saying things along the line of, keep the shops open, keep the planes coming from abroad.

If Winston Peter's hadn't anointed Jacinda Ardern in 2017 Bill English would have been the Prime Minister and Judith Collins would not have been National's leader.

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Technofreak

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#2862294 5-Feb-2022 19:39

elpenguino:

GV27:

I really, really doubt Bill English would have thrown us to the wolves like people who are desperate to avoid scrutinising our government response would have us believe.

While he seemed like he had some personal integrity, he was several leaders ago and precovid.

I remember the National leader (was it Collins?) at the time covid hit saying things along the line of, keep the shops open, keep the planes coming from abroad.

If Winston Peter's hadn't anointed Jacinda Ardern in 2017 Bill English would have been the Prime Minister and Judith Collins would not have been National's leader.

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Rikkitic

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#2862303 5-Feb-2022 20:46

Technofreak:

If Winston Peter's hadn't anointed Jacinda Ardern in 2017 Bill English would have been the Prime Minister and Judith Collins would not have been National's leader.

If that asteroid had struck earth in 2017 it wouldn't have mattered who was Prime Minister and Judith Collins would not have been anything.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

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#2862316 5-Feb-2022 21:12

Just saying if you're going to get your undies in a knot over a hypothetical National government, then it probably pays to at least knows who would have been leading it.

networkn

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#2862891 7-Feb-2022 09:02

elpenguino:

But that's the point isn't it. 'Other' parties would have made different choices leading to different incomes.

If you *honestly* think that National would have done a Trump and ignored Covid till it killed many thousands of people, then I am really not sure what to tell you.

The lockdown was not Arderns brainchild, it wasn't a masterstroke. It was the only and obvious choice because the coalition had ignored pleas to shut or even restrict borders earlier and implement testing and isolation by hundreds of doctors in multiple open letters. If we had implemented those things, a L4 lockdown may not have been necessary. When most experts were calling for restrictions earlier, Ardern went to Australia on a fools errand to try and convince them to treat our citizens better (which is Ironic considering how we have treated people here subsequently) Would National have implemented the lockdown differently? Almost certainly. I don't believe, however, that with all the facts presented to them, the choices would have been significantly different or the outcome significantly worse.

I certainly believe that a National government made up of it's members at that time wouldn't have sat on their hands for the past 2 years and done very little to improve our ICU capacity, medical staffing numbers or training. The next couple of months are going to be pretty grim here, we could be significantly better prepared than we are.

We have been plain dumb lucky so many times, that is a major contributor to our success. The government deserves some credit for it's Covid response, we could have been so much worse off, but they are also being credited for things they had no real part to play in.

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#2862894 7-Feb-2022 09:11

National may have closed the borders sooner, but I also recall them saying in the peak of new daily cases in 2020 (it might have been Todd Muller or Judith Collins - one of them anyway) they were saying "just open the borders" like everything was all good and back to normal. I'm glad that advice wasn't heeded, or things could have been far, far worse.

networkn

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#2862895 7-Feb-2022 09:22

For the record, I am under no illusions that whoever ran the show would have made mistakes, I certainly do not agree with everything National has said or done. (though do tend to take what is said with a lot of gains of salt because they are the opposition, don't have access to all the information, and opposition will oppose). I also don't disagree with everything done by Labour/Coalition either. Ardern despite me not liking her personal style of communication (her talking down to people makes my skin crawl), has stood up most days and communicated to the country pretty well. It will have been an incredibly tough and stressful job, exhausting to say the least and with a huge amount of pressure to keep everyone alive, businesses afloat and with some form of future which largely they have done. No matter what they do, it's not going to suit or even allow everyone to survive, and that would be true of anyone else who would have run it.

GV27

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#2862916 7-Feb-2022 10:30

networkn:

We have been plain dumb lucky so many times, that is a major contributor to our success. The government deserves some credit for it's Covid response, we could have been so much worse off, but they are also being credited for things they had no real part to play in.

I think people also overegg the PM's role in the response - yes getting up at 1pm and getting a tonne of media coverage is probably quite challenging when we know now she very often didn't have the full picture (either by intention or by accident), but the people who actually made the lockdowns work were ordinary NZers who followed the gameplan, not MPs.

quickymart

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#2862922 7-Feb-2022 10:49

networkn:

No matter what they do, it's not going to suit or even allow everyone to survive, and that would be true of anyone else who would have run it.

Agreed - "you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time".

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