Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

1 | ... | 188 | 189 | 190 | 191 | 192 | 193 | 194 | 195 | 196 | 197 | 198 | ... | 236

1897 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1402

#3417648 23-Sep-2025 08:19

I don't want to hear anymore what was the previous Governments mess, I want to hear solid plans that lead a path to a better future for all.

I get that the unions are doing their part to make the current Govt look bad (and to be fair, they don't have to try that hard), but if they want to attract more talent to an industry / vocation, stop painting it out to look so bad -

Teachers are underpaid and over-worked is the message du jour from the unions, why then would anyone want to actually train to be a teacher? Sure, for some its a calling, they love teaching, but if you want to appeal to a wider base, you have to be appealing.

Same applies to Doctors, Nurses etc

Both want / desperately need more resources (i.e Money), but money for moneys sake doesn't solve the problem. Governments for years have thrown money at it, they've created new regimes, spent countless millions on restructures etc, all because they didn't like the way the other lot did it.

Are there world leading education and health structures that we can scale / emulate? It might take years to get right, but if our politicians could put ego' aside and work for a long term solution, that'd be a start.

quickymart

14942 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 13959

ID Verified

#3417656 23-Sep-2025 08:49

sen8or:

I don't want to hear anymore what was the previous Governments mess, I want to hear solid plans that lead a path to a better future for all.

A bit of a mixed bag for the government on the economy, 2 years after they took office. I wonder if they're going to keep blaming Labour for the current economic situation? They've had 2 years to "right the ship" (as they've been saying) now.

SaltyNZ

8874 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9562

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3417658 23-Sep-2025 09:03

quickymart:

to "right the ship" (as they've been saying) now.

I assume the next thing they will do is put out a press release about how much Labour allowed the economy's budget to blow out over unnecessary infrastructure upgrades and then immediately cancel the economy on the promise that they will buy their own economy to be delivered at some indefinite time in the future which will be both better and cheaper than the bloated, wasteful Labour economy. We will be forced to pay for most of the new Labour economy anyway as well as to continue with our old, busted, rapidly disintegrating economy in the meantime. This will be a small price to pay for the glorious new Toyota Corolla economy we can expect to receive no earlier than 2031, depending on the outcome of the working group study.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Handle9

11927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9683

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3417948 23-Sep-2025 15:45

sen8or:

I get that the unions are doing their part to make the current Govt look bad (and to be fair, they don't have to try that hard), but if they want to attract more talent to an industry / vocation, stop painting it out to look so bad -

A unions job isn't to attract people to an industry. Their job is to get the best conditions for their members they can. It's the job of the employer to attract people to an industry as they are the ones who get the benefit of talent.

It's beyond me why it's ok for employers to act in their best interests but when workers or unions do the same they are the bad guy.

SaltyNZ

8874 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9562

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3418035 23-Sep-2025 17:56

Handle9:

It's beyond me why it's ok for employers to act in their best interests but when workers or unions do the same they are the bad guy.

I grew up in a very (Australian) Liberal Party household. Mum & dad will vote Liberal till the day they die. So as a kid I was brought up to believe unions were full of selfish lazy idiots who hid behind the union to take advantage of businesses. As I grew up I realised there were plenty of selfish lazy idiots who hid behind their businesses to take advantage of workers.

Yeah, there are definitely bad unionists who want to get paid for doing nothing. But unions are an essential balance against the bad business owners who want to get work for paying nothing.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Handle9

11927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9683

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3418069 23-Sep-2025 18:35

SaltyNZ:

Handle9:

It's beyond me why it's ok for employers to act in their best interests but when workers or unions do the same they are the bad guy.

I grew up in a very (Australian) Liberal Party household. Mum & dad will vote Liberal till the day they die. So as a kid I was brought up to believe unions were full of selfish lazy idiots who hid behind the union to take advantage of businesses. As I grew up I realised there were plenty of selfish lazy idiots who hid behind their businesses to take advantage of workers.

Yeah, there are definitely bad unionists who want to get paid for doing nothing. But unions are an essential balance against the bad business owners who want to get work for paying nothing.

For jobs where the employer is almost exclusively the state unions are essential. If you are a teacher or a nurse you can't easily quit and get a new employer because the state is employs an overwhelming proportion of the workforce. It's not like you can quit and find another job that pays better as a teacher.

If they weren't unionized it would be far too easy for the government of the day to erode their working conditions because it suits them. Some of the things that unions do aren't great but overall they are a positive for working people, particularly in these types of industries.

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

Handle9

11927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9683

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3418071 23-Sep-2025 18:47

Incidentally the government really can't reasonably have a whinge about the unions being mean to them when they don't make any effort to work with them. Audrey Youngs (paywalled) column a couple days ago had some interesting information. She interviewed Richard Wagstaff, the retiring head of the CTU.

He laments the poor relationship the CTU has with the current National-led Government compared to the John Key-led National Government.

The CTU used to meet regularly with Key, Finance Minister Bill English and Workplace Minister Michael Woodhouse.

“It was a relationship with the Government that involved respect and listening to each other. Yes, we didn’t agree on a lot of things, but it was a pretty… normal relationship.”

And he said they got things done together, including banning zero-hours contracts where there were no guaranteed hours of work, but employees had to be ready to accept any shift. Principles for progressing pay equity were also negotiated in a tripartite process with unions, employers and the Government.

“This Government is right out of kilter,” he said. “This Government doesn’t engage with us at all. We feel unwelcome.

“We never meet with the Prime Minister. We’ve asked to. We’ve never met with the Minister of Finance. We’ve asked to.”

They had met only two or three times with Workplace Minister Brooke van Velden.

“So the Minister of Workplace Relations isn’t unique. She’s part of a team who won’t meet with us.”

Social Development Minister Louise Upston had met with the CTU and Business New Zealand together.

“Good for her, and she takes what I would describe as a normal approach. Let’s work on the things we can agree on. Let’s find what they are, but the rest of the Government doesn’t seem to be interested.”

sen8or

1897 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1402

#3418244 24-Sep-2025 07:59

Handle9:

sen8or:

I get that the unions are doing their part to make the current Govt look bad (and to be fair, they don't have to try that hard), but if they want to attract more talent to an industry / vocation, stop painting it out to look so bad -

A unions job isn't to attract people to an industry. Their job is to get the best conditions for their members they can. It's the job of the employer to attract people to an industry as they are the ones who get the benefit of talent.

It's beyond me why it's ok for employers to act in their best interests but when workers or unions do the same they are the bad guy.

I agree, their job isn't to attract employees to an industry, but they sure can push people away from one through their actions and publicity (as can employers). If all you hear is doom and gloom (which from the teachers and nurses union is all its been for the last few years), its hardly an endorsement for new talent to enter.

The unions are using the public as bargaining chips, that I have an issue with

Handle9

11927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9683

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3418495 24-Sep-2025 14:26

sen8or:

Handle9:

A unions job isn't to attract people to an industry. Their job is to get the best conditions for their members they can. It's the job of the employer to attract people to an industry as they are the ones who get the benefit of talent.

It's beyond me why it's ok for employers to act in their best interests but when workers or unions do the same they are the bad guy.

I agree, their job isn't to attract employees to an industry, but they sure can push people away from one through their actions and publicity (as can employers). If all you hear is doom and gloom (which from the teachers and nurses union is all its been for the last few years), its hardly an endorsement for new talent to enter.

The unions are using the public as bargaining chips, that I have an issue with

Is your problem with the doom and gloom that it isn’t factual or that it makes you uncomfortable? Why aren’t you complaining that the employer hasn’t fixed the problems?

The public is the employer. It’s incredibly naive and unfair to expect them not to be inconvenienced when the public, via their elected representatives, are asking for effective pay cuts.

sen8or

1897 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1402

#3418539 24-Sep-2025 17:00

Handle9:

Is your problem with the doom and gloom that it isn’t factual or that it makes you uncomfortable? Why aren’t you complaining that the employer hasn’t fixed the problems?

The public is the employer. It’s incredibly naive and unfair to expect them not to be inconvenienced when the public, via their elected representatives, are asking for effective pay cuts.

I think the link between the general public and the teachers/doctors/nurses is far to long and thin to paint the public as the employer, much in the same way I don't consider myself an employer of the local New World supermarket just because I spend my money there.

I don't think many would argue that they don't deserve more pay, better conditions, more staff etc, but when their action causes operations to be cancelled / postponed (for patients that may very well already have waited an age just to get a date) its a bitter pill to swallow for those effected.

As for complaining that the employer hasn't fixed the problems? I don't think I've said much (or anything) remotely positive about the state of the health / education system in the last 2 years, I'm all for trying to get things right.

Clearly I come from a non unionised background and have always worked with my employer to change my pay conditions to suit. I would not choose an employer where I couldn't do that so don't have the same perspective as others.

Handle9

11927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9683

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3418544 24-Sep-2025 17:14

sen8or:

Handle9:

Is your problem with the doom and gloom that it isn’t factual or that it makes you uncomfortable? Why aren’t you complaining that the employer hasn’t fixed the problems?

The public is the employer. It’s incredibly naive and unfair to expect them not to be inconvenienced when the public, via their elected representatives, are asking for effective pay cuts.

I think the link between the general public and the teachers/doctors/nurses is far to long and thin to paint the public as the employer, much in the same way I don't consider myself an employer of the local New World supermarket just because I spend my money there.

I don't think many would argue that they don't deserve more pay, better conditions, more staff etc, but when their action causes operations to be cancelled / postponed (for patients that may very well already have waited an age just to get a date) its a bitter pill to swallow for those effected.

As for complaining that the employer hasn't fixed the problems? I don't think I've said much (or anything) remotely positive about the state of the health / education system in the last 2 years, I'm all for trying to get things right.

Clearly I come from a non unionised background and have always worked with my employer to change my pay conditions to suit. I would not choose an employer where I couldn't do that so don't have the same perspective as others.

The link between the public and public servants is very simple and easy to understand. It's really not complex at all. Your analogy of a New World supermarket is at fault because that is not owned by the public.

If the problem is the health and education systems why are you blaming unions for standing up for their members? It's not the employees, or unions, fault that the systems are not functioning as they should or that they are not being offered remuneration that maintains their real world income. They don't get a say in the way the system is set up and they are quite literally ignored by the government unless they take industrial action. Erica Stanford has refused to attend the current PPTA conference and as I posted above

If that causes inconvenience to the general public then that is a functional bargaining system working as it should work. Employees are working in their best interests just as the government are working in their best interests. Everyone looks after themselves.

Dell

Shop now for Dell laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

SaltyNZ

8874 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9562

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3418730 25-Sep-2025 13:44

So Shane Jones has officially reopened exploration for more fossil fuels and we tax payers will be on the hook for at least $200M to help.

[John Carnegie] also expressed enthusiasm for the promised co-investment details: "Exploration is capital-intensive. Clear signals that the Crown is prepared to share that risk alongside industry will help to bring capital back into New Zealand."

Now, ignoring for a moment why this is a dumb move when new wells are a decade from production even if they get a license tomorrow (which is to say, they won't be keeping any lights on for years), or why if there were any profitable amounts of gas or oil to be found companies wouldn't need $200M of taxpayer money to offset their costs, or even that the last thing we need right now is more atmospheric CO2, we could use that $200M today to deploy solar/wind and batteries, and they could be generating power to the grid in 12 months. Especially since the government is already the majority owner of, oh, a bunch of companies that already have consented renewable generation facilities they just never got around to building.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

SaltyNZ

8874 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9562

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3419270 27-Sep-2025 18:10

Luxon government fails to do even the bare symbolic minimum.

Luxon acknowledged some New Zealanders would be disappointed by the government's decision, but others would support it, and there were strongly held views on both sides of the debate.

Not to worry though, there are very fine people on both sides.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.