Labour's proposed regional fuel tax: Will you be happy to pay it?

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Forums › Politics › Labour's proposed regional fuel tax: Will you be happy to pay it?

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#1840446 7-Aug-2017 10:53

Senecio:

Linuxluver:

In the price of diesel.....no problem.

Doesn't that defeat the point of RUC? People who are using diesel for agricultural purposes in Auckland are also going to contribute to reduced congestion on Auckland motorways?

Most agricultural users don't drive harvesters to the gas station. I'd expect the 10c per litre to be gas station based, and some alternative for any large transport

companies that get their own fuel delivered

Or they could toll every vehicle that operates on a number of arteries in AKL, limited to one or two tolls a day. Thats automatic, ticket clipped as you drive past

wellygary

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#1840454 7-Aug-2017 11:03

tdgeek:

Most agricultural users don't drive harvesters to the gas station. I'd expect the 10c per litre to be gas station based, and some alternative for any large transportcompanies that get their own fuel delivered

and that is where the admin problems begin,

The current Excise duty is paid on production (removal from licensed premises [port or refinery])

This tax will be sales based as particular sites, so cannot be simply added to the existing tax system- you have to build a new tax system based on the sales at each location,

- I'm not saying it cannot be done, but I am not sure they has been any work on how this tax will actually be implemented....

( plus also is it open to other regional councils to put their hands up for a 10c levy to pay for pet projects in their areas)

- commuter rail in Christchurch. keeping the trolley buses in Wellington, light rail for queenstown, the list goes on

allan

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#1840462 7-Aug-2017 11:13

We've had regional fuel taxes in the past I'm quite sure. How did it work then?

tdgeek

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#1840463 7-Aug-2017 11:13

wellygary:

tdgeek:

Most agricultural users don't drive harvesters to the gas station. I'd expect the 10c per litre to be gas station based, and some alternative for any large transportcompanies that get their own fuel delivered

and that is where the admin problems begin,

The current Excise duty is paid on production (removal from licensed premises [port or refinery])

This tax will be sales based as particular sites, so cannot be simply added to the existing tax system- you have to build a new tax system based on the sales at each location,

- I'm not saying it cannot be done, but I am not sure they has been any work on how this tax will actually be implemented....

( plus also is it open to other regional councils to put their hands up for a 10c levy to pay for pet projects in their areas)

- commuter rail in Christchurch. keeping the trolley buses in Wellington, light rail for queenstown, the list goes on

Maybe thats what needs to happen as its slow to get things done. Someone has to pay

throbb

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#1840480 7-Aug-2017 11:24

robjg63:

It is probably not fair for the rest of the country to have to pay for this long overdue work - and Auckland seems to have cheaper fuel than the rest of the country at the moment as far as I can see so it shouldnt hurt too much.

I was always under the impression taxes from Auckland "funded" many of the roading projects around the country.

Rikkitic

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#1840481 7-Aug-2017 11:28

It amuses me how certain people predictably line up on the right and left of these kinds of issues. Don't let practical reality get in the way of your ideological purity!

Aside from that, there seems to be a lot of willful ignorance driving some opinions, particularly about things like light rail. If it is such a useless waste of public money, why are cities all over the world adopting it? What about the experiences of those who already have it?

I don't live in an area likely to ever need a local tax for infrastructure, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. Why not? We are all part of the larger community of New Zealand and we should all contribute to big projects of national significance, but we are also part of smaller communities, and we should also contribute to those if we benefit from local facilities. I don't see a problem with this.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#1840489 7-Aug-2017 11:34

allan:

We've had regional fuel taxes in the past I'm quite sure. How did it work then?

Cant recall that, but I remember carless days!

Delete cookies?! Are you insane?!

afe66

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#1840499 7-Aug-2017 11:55

I don't live in Auckland so it wouldn't affect me.

But something needs to be done about improving the infrastructure and it costs money which has to come from somewhere above what is currently being collected.

So we need to be adult about the issue and not become tribal about which party we support or nit pick fine print examples like what about ev or diesel or those who drive big cars or sound like by child screaming 'it isn't fair'.

Either pay for it or accept life on Auckland roads is going to get increasingly worse and worse.

tdgeek

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#1840502 7-Aug-2017 11:57

afe66: I don't live in Auckland so it wouldn't affect me.

But something needs to be done about improving the infrastructure and it costs money which has to come from somewhere above what is currently being collected.

So we need to be adult about the issue and not become tribal about which party we support or nit pick fine print examples like what about ev or diesel or those who drive big cars or sound like by child screaming 'it isn't fair'.

Either pay for it or accept life on Auckland roads is going to get increasingly worse and worse.

Party wise, yes, what one suggests the other dismisses.

Its down to who pays. Everyone for AKL work, or AKL for AKL work?

allan

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#1840504 7-Aug-2017 11:59

kiwifidget:

allan:

We've had regional fuel taxes in the past I'm quite sure. How did it work then?

Cant recall that, but I remember carless days!

Actually a bit of Googling suggests previous scheme I was was thinking of was rescinded before it got off the ground. Yes, I also remember carless days. Worked for an insurance company at the time. Combination of fewer cars and reduced speed limits pushed vehicle insurance claims costs way down while it lasted...

Linuxluver

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#1840506 7-Aug-2017 12:03

Senecio:

Linuxluver:

In the price of diesel.....no problem.

Doesn't that defeat the point of RUC? People who are using diesel for agricultural purposes in Auckland are also going to contribute to reduced congestion on Auckland motorways?

They have been subsidised too long anyway. The whole RUC system was created so farmers could avoid tax. Talk about creating complexity!

Enough of that.

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#1840507 7-Aug-2017 12:05

afe66: I don't live in Auckland so it wouldn't affect me.

But something needs to be done about improving the infrastructure and it costs money which has to come from somewhere above what is currently being collected.

So we need to be adult about the issue and not become tribal about which party we support or nit pick fine print examples like what about ev or diesel or those who drive big cars or sound like by child screaming 'it isn't fair'.

Either pay for it or accept life on Auckland roads is going to get increasingly worse and worse.

The $29m for the flag referendum and the $56m for the pavillion at the trade show in the UAE could have got rid of more than a few one lane bridges out there in regional NZ.

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Linuxluver

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#1840511 7-Aug-2017 12:10

Rikkitic:

It amuses me how certain people predictably line up on the right and left of these kinds of issues. Don't let practical reality get in the way of your ideological purity!

Aside from that, there seems to be a lot of willful ignorance driving some opinions, particularly about things like light rail. If it is such a useless waste of public money, why are cities all over the world adopting it? What about the experiences of those who already have it?

I don't live in an area likely to ever need a local tax for infrastructure, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. Why not? We are all part of the larger community of New Zealand and we should all contribute to big projects of national significance, but we are also part of smaller communities, and we should also contribute to those if we benefit from local facilities. I don't see a problem with this.

Some people never let the facts get in the way of their unfounded belief, that certainly is true.

Light rail everywhere soon finds itself over-used....and they should have done heavy rail.

The LUAS in Dublic is a classic example. Sure....light rail is cheaper.....but just try and get on the LUAS at peak time. Just try....It was hopelessly under spc right from the day it opened.

NZ regularly does the same. The Auckland Harbour Bridge was overwhelmed at 4 lanes....having been reduced from the original 6 to save money. Only 15 years later they had to spend more than the bridge cost to add 4 more lanes.

The CRL will be the same. The projected capacity for the CRL when completed is only slightly more than the rail network is projected to carry BEFORE it is completed.......so again, we will have built for yesterday instead of tomorrow...and wasted vasts sums on the unfounded belief money was being saved.

No it wasn't. But that never stops the people who say "I never use it" from chirping on and helping ensure we make the same mistakes over and over.

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#1840516 7-Aug-2017 12:21

Auckland needs to fund enormous projects like rail to the airport. The two options are fuel tax or road tolls like congestion charging etc. Fuel tax is much, much better because there is no overhead to administer and collect it. With roads rolls there are cameras, toll gates, millions of individual payments to process etc - all that overhead and enforcement takes up something like 40% of the income. Fuel taxes are much more efficient so we'll pay far less over the long term.

ajw

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#1840519 7-Aug-2017 12:33

dylanp:

Auckland needs to fund enormous projects like rail to the airport. The two options are fuel tax or road tolls like congestion charging etc. Fuel tax is much, much better because there is no overhead to administer and collect it. With roads rolls there are cameras, toll gates, millions of individual payments to process etc - all that overhead and enforcement takes up something like 40% of the income. Fuel taxes are much more efficient so we'll pay far less over the long term.

Higher taxes hit the poorest people the hardest and take more revenue from the productive sector, this proposed exercise in social engineering is only designed to force people out of there cars.

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