Nationals $20,000 to $30,000 sweetener to boost the existing Home Start Grant.

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Forums › Politics › Nationals $20,000 to $30,000 sweetener to boost the existing Home Start Grant.

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#1864424 13-Sep-2017 12:05

Are their any restrictions on home grants? Can a couple take it up, a couple of years later sell it for as much as they can get? Then for the next lot we're back to square one.

Some countries have government housing that is leased or sold to the residents. Could that be a way I thought and they can't be gouged and sold on the big market. People also cannot lease or buy them if they already have property so it provides affordable accommodation for a group of the population. In NZ public housing is for low income earners but places like Singapore everyone can get them. If they want something better they can get them off the open market.

GV27

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#1864430 13-Sep-2017 12:16

rayonline:

Are their any restrictions on home grants? Can a couple take it up, a couple of years later sell it for as much as they can get? Then for the next lot we're back to square one.

Some countries have government housing that is leased or sold to the residents. Could that be a way I thought and they can't be gouged and sold on the big market. People also cannot lease or buy them if they already have property so it provides affordable accommodation for a group of the population. In NZ public housing is for low income earners but places like Singapore everyone can get them. If they want something better they can get them off the open market.

Then you're going to have the same issue - people can't pay leases/rent and save up a deposit to buy on the open market at the same time.

The houses available aren't palatial manors, they range from one bedroom apartments to 2.5 bedroom terrace houses.

rayonline

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#1864438 13-Sep-2017 12:21

GV27:

rayonline:

Are their any restrictions on home grants? Can a couple take it up, a couple of years later sell it for as much as they can get? Then for the next lot we're back to square one.

Some countries have government housing that is leased or sold to the residents. Could that be a way I thought and they can't be gouged and sold on the big market. People also cannot lease or buy them if they already have property so it provides affordable accommodation for a group of the population. In NZ public housing is for low income earners but places like Singapore everyone can get them. If they want something better they can get them off the open market.

Then you're going to have the same issue - people can't pay leases/rent and save up a deposit to buy on the open market at the same time.

The houses available aren't palatial manors, they range from one bedroom apartments to 2.5 bedroom terrace houses.

Does it matter if they cannot buy on the open market. If they can live forever in public housing that's a form of accommodation. They could set it like XX% below market price pegged by the government. They can work and live, doesn't necessarily mean everyone needs to rent or buy on the open market.

GV27

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#1864445 13-Sep-2017 12:32

rayonline:

Does it matter if they cannot buy on the open market. If they can live forever in public housing that's a form of accommodation. They could set it like XX% below market price pegged by the government. They can work and live, doesn't necessarily mean everyone needs to rent or buy on the open market.

We can't build enough state housing to house our poorest and you're proposing we extend it to young professionals who can't pay rent and save a deposit at the same time; whereas a slightly subsidised house could take them out of the entry-level market (where there is the most limited supply)?

Like I get where you're coming from with this but these are massive steps to avoid someone selling a first home at a gain t(and will appreciate in value at a slower rate as we build more houses anyway).

bmt

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#1867148 15-Sep-2017 23:54

rayonline:

Are their any restrictions on home grants? Can a couple take it up, a couple of years later sell it for as much as they can get? Then for the next lot we're back to square one.

Some countries have government housing that is leased or sold to the residents. Could that be a way I thought and they can't be gouged and sold on the big market. People also cannot lease or buy them if they already have property so it provides affordable accommodation for a group of the population. In NZ public housing is for low income earners but places like Singapore everyone can get them. If they want something better they can get them off the open market.

The HomeStart grant restriction is you must live in the house for 6 months. There are standalone affordable housing schemes/areas that require you to live for 2-3 years before selling, otherwise you have to sell back to them for the price you pay (or something like that).

Re the caps, the grant amount, income caps and house price caps have gone up a couple of times. In fact the last increase to $650k meant I was able to take advantage of it, and also dropped below the $130k income cap for a couple months which was enough to take advantage and get a HomeStart :)

So with respect to your comment earlier GV27, I'll be buying a $650k place using HomeStart and at the point our combined income will be over $160k :P

Edit: It is still being built, at time of settlement/getting a mortage our income will be >$160k..

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#1867183 16-Sep-2017 08:54

Do we have shared equity models in NZ?

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rayonline

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#1867294 16-Sep-2017 14:11

bmt:

rayonline:

Are their any restrictions on home grants? Can a couple take it up, a couple of years later sell it for as much as they can get? Then for the next lot we're back to square one.

Some countries have government housing that is leased or sold to the residents. Could that be a way I thought and they can't be gouged and sold on the big market. People also cannot lease or buy them if they already have property so it provides affordable accommodation for a group of the population. In NZ public housing is for low income earners but places like Singapore everyone can get them. If they want something better they can get them off the open market.

The HomeStart grant restriction is you must live in the house for 6 months. There are standalone affordable housing schemes/areas that require you to live for 2-3 years before selling, otherwise you have to sell back to them for the price you pay (or something like that).

Re the caps, the grant amount, income caps and house price caps have gone up a couple of times. In fact the last increase to $650k meant I was able to take advantage of it, and also dropped below the $130k income cap for a couple months which was enough to take advantage and get a HomeStart :)

So with respect to your comment earlier GV27, I'll be buying a $650k place using HomeStart and at the point our combined income will be over $160k :P

Edit: It is still being built, at time of settlement/getting a mortage our income will be >$160k..

Only for couples. A well paid single could potentially get the deposit over the years but then their income is too high. Well like places overseas, small apartments and renting might just be the way. I don't think property will increase 10% every year infinity but we have gotten used to high house prices now and high deposit requirements the more affordable houses will still have enough demand to prop them up.

bmt

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Ultimate Geek
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#1867394 16-Sep-2017 20:01

Well tbh I'll have saved about $170k myself and am still under the single person income cap, but then the problem you have is mortgage serviceability, especially at the $650k end.

At the end of the day population keeps growing but land is finite, things are never going to return to "the good old days" and buying a quarter acre is no longer feasible. So yeah small apartments and renting for a good portion of one's life as you say.

rayonline

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#1867520 17-Sep-2017 14:48

Yes it's the serviceability. Pretty much screwed unless one doubles their income. A modest $700k home with a deposit achieved, let's say they were living with parents or the inlaws, serviceability of the loan requires $800 a week (Westpac calculator) under a 30yr plan. With a mortgage the house price gets locked down, and wage increases a modest 2 or 3% per year on average overtime maybe. So that helps a bit.

One might argue it might be better renting for life and invest. A 1 bedroom is a lot easier but then there is the $4,000 PA for the insurance the body corp but those things can increase over time too.

lokhor

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#1867664 17-Sep-2017 20:05

rayonline:

Yes it's the serviceability. Pretty much screwed unless one doubles their income. A modest $700k home with a deposit achieved, let's say they were living with parents or the inlaws, serviceability of the loan requires $800 a week (Westpac calculator) under a 30yr plan. With a mortgage the house price gets locked down, and wage increases a modest 2 or 3% per year on average overtime maybe. So that helps a bit.

One might argue it might be better renting for life and invest. A 1 bedroom is a lot easier but then there is the $4,000 PA for the insurance the body corp but those things can increase over time too.

A modest house costing $700K is insane. How did the market get in this state?

Oh wait, you can watch this documentary and find out. It's pretty depressing btw.

https://www.threenow.co.nz/shows/who-owns-new-zealand-now/S1344-012

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GV27

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#1867742 18-Sep-2017 07:21

lokhor:

A modest house costing $700K is insane. How did the market get in this state?

Oh wait, you can watch this documentary and find out. It's pretty depressing btw.

https://www.threenow.co.nz/shows/who-owns-new-zealand-now/S1344-012

The usual Brian Bruce pre-election documentary which he always insists is not timed to influence the election?

Forgive me for taking this with a grain of salt.

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#1867796 18-Sep-2017 08:44

GV27:

lokhor:

A modest house costing $700K is insane. How did the market get in this state?

Oh wait, you can watch this documentary and find out. It's pretty depressing btw.

https://www.threenow.co.nz/shows/who-owns-new-zealand-now/S1344-012

The usual Brian Bruce pre-election documentary which he always insists is not timed to influence the election?

Forgive me for taking this with a grain of salt.

Right now where the housing market is we need stability.

There is nothing wrong with an average house costing $700k in 5-10 years time. We need to focus on building the economy, keeping people in jobs and making sure that everyone can service their existing home loans. Keeping house prices flat is ideally what we all really want. The last thing we need right now is for house prices to drop like 30 % (many are predicting this can very easily happen), add to this a couple of interest rate hikes and we head for disaster.

tdgeek

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#1867810 18-Sep-2017 09:03

Wiggum:

GV27:

lokhor:

A modest house costing $700K is insane. How did the market get in this state?

Oh wait, you can watch this documentary and find out. It's pretty depressing btw.

https://www.threenow.co.nz/shows/who-owns-new-zealand-now/S1344-012

The usual Brian Bruce pre-election documentary which he always insists is not timed to influence the election?

Forgive me for taking this with a grain of salt.

Right now where the housing market is we need stability.

There is nothing wrong with an average house costing $700k in 5-10 years time. We need to focus on building the economy, keeping people in jobs and making sure that everyone can service their existing home loans. Keeping house prices flat is ideally what we all really want. The last thing we need right now is for house prices to drop like 30 % (many are predicting this can very easily happen), add to this a couple of interest rate hikes and we head for disaster.

They wont drop, for a few reasons. people cannot or will not pay any more, that will ease the market. Pre election and winter is a low sales period, need to see what happens very soon. Haven't yet seen the doco I assume its based around immigration? I feel it is, except its rich immigration. Imagine if a number of Texas oil millionaires decided to move to AKL? Kiwis will pay 700k for this home. At auction the Texans will just pay 800, no skin off their nose, easy. So that type of home and the ones that are better or not quite as good, now have a new artificial market value. I know many foreignors who are not moneyed, but the parents are, bang, sorted. Thus, the prices are not based on kiwi building costs, kiwi wages, kiwi interest rates, they are based on foreign money

Wiggum

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#1867864 18-Sep-2017 10:08

tdgeek:

They wont drop, for a few reasons. people cannot or will not pay any more, that will ease the market. Pre election and winter is a low sales period, need to see what happens very soon. Haven't yet seen the doco I assume its based around immigration? I feel it is, except its rich immigration. Imagine if a number of Texas oil millionaires decided to move to AKL? Kiwis will pay 700k for this home. At auction the Texans will just pay 800, no skin off their nose, easy. So that type of home and the ones that are better or not quite as good, now have a new artificial market value. I know many foreignors who are not moneyed, but the parents are, bang, sorted. Thus, the prices are not based on kiwi building costs, kiwi wages, kiwi interest rates, they are based on foreign money

If there is a housing shortage you will be surprised as to what people will do and pay.

Its not just immigrants with the money, there are a lot of kiwis who have made hundreds of thousands on the back of the market boom.

I agree that this time of year is never a good time to get a true indication of the market. Normally things start to ramp up towards mid October, and then going into full swing in November/December/Jan/Feb.

tdgeek

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#1867873 18-Sep-2017 10:19

Wiggum:

tdgeek:

They wont drop, for a few reasons. people cannot or will not pay any more, that will ease the market. Pre election and winter is a low sales period, need to see what happens very soon. Haven't yet seen the doco I assume its based around immigration? I feel it is, except its rich immigration. Imagine if a number of Texas oil millionaires decided to move to AKL? Kiwis will pay 700k for this home. At auction the Texans will just pay 800, no skin off their nose, easy. So that type of home and the ones that are better or not quite as good, now have a new artificial market value. I know many foreignors who are not moneyed, but the parents are, bang, sorted. Thus, the prices are not based on kiwi building costs, kiwi wages, kiwi interest rates, they are based on foreign money

If there is a housing shortage you will be surprised as to what people will do and pay.

Its not just immigrants with the money, there are a lot of kiwis who have made hundreds of thousands on the back of the market boom.

I agree that this time of year is never a good time to get a true indication of the market. Normally things start to ramp up towards mid October, and then going into full swing in November/December/Jan/Feb.

There are always kiwis who are moneyed up, that's a constant.

So whats the housing shortage? Lower end, middle end or upper end?

Whats the result that this housing shortage causes?

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