Labour forcing Christchurch to fluoridate water supply.

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Forums › Politics › Labour forcing Christchurch to fluoridate water supply.

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rugrat

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#2678805 22-Mar-2021 20:40

gzt:
rugrat:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352187219300415

The above is more current research on fluoride and effects on bones.

This is interesting enough but on casual inspection skimming I don't see any evidence there to support your claims. There are many technical measures in the paper but these are not correlated to any actual functional weakness or health condition or any statistical correlation with fall injuries etc. It's unclear if these measurements have any correlation to risk or function. There are no such claims in the paper.

Are you aware of any such correlations or claims?

As I said in my last post, it doesn't indicate if lowers future standard of life. I only claimed it has a negative impact on bones.

I've decided to stop searching subject, so not aware of any correlations or claims. Just if I had the choice I would like my bones to be as good as possible.

gzt

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#2678816 22-Mar-2021 21:02

The study was conducted in Ethiopia with a rural poor population exposed to varying levels of fluoride from village wells. It's an interesting study but many other variables there.

Labour forcing Christchurch to fluoridate water supply.

The thing is - this bill was actually introduced by National and the current government inherited it. National planned to have the DHBs make this decision - and the DHB has been in favour of fluoridation for years on end. The only difference now is that the director general of heath will make that decision.

floydbloke

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#2679587 24-Mar-2021 07:55

rugrat:

...

No fluoridated water when I was a kid, and still have all my teeth except the wisdom ones. :)

I worked with a woman once who smoked like a chimney. When I queried if she had ever considered quitting her reply was: "My uncle has been a smoker all his life and he is 90 so how can it be bad for your health?"

(I didn't continue the discussion.)

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

floydbloke

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#2679627 24-Mar-2021 09:30

gzt: ...

Labour forcing Christchurch to fluoridate water supply.

The thing is - this bill was actually introduced by National and the current government inherited it. ...

I think we're lucky in this country that both mainstream parties that are likely to be the main one in government generally advocate and support science.

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

Paul1977

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#2679682 24-Mar-2021 11:27

I think I'm with @rugrat on this one.

If parents ensure that children take proper care of their teeth, would fluoridation be necessary? It might sound callous, but why should I have chemicals added to my drinking water because someone else isn't taking proper care of their children's teeth?

Am I concerned fluoridation will have negative consequences? Not really - I haven't looked into it and probably won't. But on principal I don't like the idea of having something forced onto me because the government feels parents can't look after their children properly.

Some more anecdotal evidence - I have lived in Christchurch my entire life and my teeth are good.

I wouldn't go out and campaign against it, but if put to a vote I would vote against.

Rikkitic

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#2679685 24-Mar-2021 11:38

You can wank on all you like about bad parenting, but it is the kids who suffer and lower socio-economic groups suffer disproportionately. The problem is multi-generational so whatever has been done isn't working. Fluoridation does work. It is extremely effective. Not having it seems a big price to pay (by the affected children) just so a few tin foil types can think (falsely, as it happens) that they are not being surreptitiously medicated by the government. If it really bothers you that much, just buy bottled water. In the meantime, ease up on the victim blaming.

Edit: I meant to include these links but forgot. This helps explain the issue.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/graph/30604/the-state-of-new-zealanders-teeth
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/431819/grim-report-released-on-state-of-nz-kids-health
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/94723061/more-than-6600-kiwi-kids-admitted-to-hospital-with-rotten-teeth-in-one-year

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Paul1977

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#2679813 24-Mar-2021 12:45

Rikkitic:

You can wank on all you like about bad parenting, but it is the kids who suffer and lower socio-economic groups suffer disproportionately. The problem is multi-generational so whatever has been done isn't working. Fluoridation does work. It is extremely effective. Not having it seems a big price to pay (by the affected children) just so a few tin foil types can think (falsely, as it happens) that they are not being surreptitiously medicated by the government. If it really bothers you that much, just buy bottled water. In the meantime, ease up on the victim blaming.

Edit: I meant to include these links but forgot. This helps explain the issue.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/graph/30604/the-state-of-new-zealanders-teeth
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/431819/grim-report-released-on-state-of-nz-kids-health
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/94723061/more-than-6600-kiwi-kids-admitted-to-hospital-with-rotten-teeth-in-one-year

Please don't put words in my mouth. I specifically said I wasn't concerned, just that if put to a vote I would vote against it on principal. It's all good and well to say I'm victim blaming, but the articles you linked say the same things - the problem is caused by high sugar diet and poor oral hygiene. How about we deal with that? Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist.

And looking at the data, Canterbury seems to be doing pretty well without fluoridation. A strong case can be made for fluoridation in many areas, but why force it in areas that are doing fine without it?

I think mandatory vaccinations would be far more important (with the exception of the immunocompromised), but that's apparently a violation of a parents right to choose. I don't see how this is different, except tooth decay isn't contagious and is entirely preventable without fluoridation of the water supply.

But for me it's not about fluoride, it's about living in a nanny state that relieves people of personal responsibility.

Rikkitic

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#2679821 24-Mar-2021 13:20

Sorry, I didn't actually mean that as personally as it probably came across. What I meant to say was 'one can go on' or 'people can go on'. I wasn't aiming specifically at you.

But many of the anti-fluoride comments do go on about the personal responsibility aspect, and while that is true, it doesn't help to change the situation, which is fairly dire. For my part, I happen to believe that fluoridating those who don't want it is the lesser of evils in this particular case.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Paul1977

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#2679826 24-Mar-2021 13:40

Rikkitic:

Sorry, I didn't actually mean that as personally as it probably came across. What I meant to say was 'one can go on' or 'people can go on'. I wasn't aiming specifically at you.

But many of the anti-fluoride comments do go on about the personal responsibility aspect, and while that is true, it doesn't help to change the situation, which is fairly dire. For my part, I happen to believe that fluoridating those who don't want it is the lesser of evils in this particular case.

You could be right.

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