Labour forcing Christchurch to fluoridate water supply.

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Forums › Politics › Labour forcing Christchurch to fluoridate water supply.

rugrat

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#283918 19-Mar-2021 16:02

Not happy. Parents should bring their children up with proper dental hygiene and less sugary drinks etc.

From govts own web site.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3144112/

“ Concurrent with the decline in dental caries has been an increase in the prevalence of dental fluorosis, a side-effect of fluoride exposure. Dental fluorosis remains highly prevalent world-wide. As recently as 2005, 23% of persons in the United States aged 6 to 39 years had very mild or greater enamel fluorosis”

Also doesn’t look like it’s good for bones, plus the ones making the decision are not the ones paying the cost. I’m feeling very anti Labour at moment.

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Awrrr
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#2677306 19-Mar-2021 16:25

Fluoride is the original conspiracy theory. I remember arguments raging about it in the 1950s. It amazes me that this is still an issue.

I am not a scientist and I don't have specialist knowledge of the subject, but until someone convinces me otherwise, I am more than happy to accept the argument that the good fluoridation does far, far outweighs any theoretical or actual harm. In my own case, I have been happily consuming fluoride (I usually swallow) since early childhood and I haven't noticed any particular ill effects. There have been so many studies on the benefits of this that it shouldn't even be an issue.

Anyone afraid of fluoride should stop a moment and think about all the crap they consume as food every day. Our rates of type 2 diabetes are going through the roof. We have one of the highest rates of bowel cancer in the world. If you want to worry about something, worry about that. Any potential harm done by fluoride pales in comparison.

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gzt

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#2677467 19-Mar-2021 23:12

rugrat: From govts own web site. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3144112/

A couple of things here. You are referring to the government of the United States of America. Second, that is actually a link to a journal article published by The Journal of Dental Research, which is not an American government publication. Journals publish all kinds random research and claims.

Consider some publications on the actual topic, in NZ:

Health.Govt.NZ: The Oral Health Survey shows rates of dental fluorosis to be the same for areas with and without
community water fluoridation and that these rates are not increasing

That was published in 2013 in the second term of a National party led government in case you're wondering.

networkn

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#2678563 22-Mar-2021 16:17

I support fluoridation of the water, nothing I have seen offsets the potential benefit to date. It's widely deployed elsewhere.

rugrat

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#2678569 22-Mar-2021 16:28

It just seems like compulsory medication to me, that doesn't benefit everyone. I brush my teeth twice a day, and split out the tooth paste as would rather not consume.

If putting stuff in water that has health benefits is ok and in low dosages and won't effect most others negatively then way not add other things to the water.

Adults would probably drink more tap water then children, i.e through coffee etc, so would get the bigger dose.

Looking online, doesn't look like carbon filters would remove it, but now looks like I'll need to find a way of getting unwanted chemical out of the water.

Rikkitic

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#2678625 22-Mar-2021 16:57

Do you eat bread? Better watch out because that has iodine added to it. Just as fluoridation prevents tooth decay in children, iodine prevents all kinds of nasty thyroid problems. Maybe you might want to give up eating altogether, considering the many additives, useful and otherwise, that go into practically everything on supermarket shelves. Read a food label sometime. All those mysterious letters and numbers in minuscule print are only some of the 'artificial' chemicals you are ingesting. Colour enhancers, flavour enhancers, shelf life enhancers, all kinds of crud to make tasteless processed food seem yummier than it really is. The fresh-looking 'red' meat? Also chemical. Fluoride is the least of your problems.

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linw

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#2678689 22-Mar-2021 17:28

Well said @Rikkitec. Couldn't agree more.

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rugrat

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#2678692 22-Mar-2021 17:31

Iodine benefits everyone, and doesn't cause bones to get weaker in old age.

Yes I can't avoid all chemicals, but just because there are car fumes in the air being breathed in, doesn't mean then to go and sit behind 10 trucks all day because already breathing in some fumes any way.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352187219300415

The above is more current research on fluoride and effects on bones.

I accept benefit of fluoride on teeth, but already taking some fluoride with brushing, which means adding to water some are going to get bigger doses then others.

networkn

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#2678694 22-Mar-2021 17:31

rugrat:

It just seems like compulsory medication to me, that doesn't benefit everyone. I brush my teeth twice a day, and split out the tooth paste as would rather not consume.

If putting stuff in water that has health benefits is ok and in low dosages and won't effect most others negatively then way not add other things to the water.

Adults would probably drink more tap water then children, i.e through coffee etc, so would get the bigger dose.

Looking online, doesn't look like carbon filters would remove it, but now looks like I'll need to find a way of getting unwanted chemical out of the water.

Whilst many medications aren't mandatory, things like Vaccinations are extremely common. I assume you are smart enough to vaccinate?

I'm afraid I don't see much point in discussing this, I hope they flouridate, and I am sorry you don't feel it's neccessary, but well.... Science.

I am as confident as I can be you'll be fine if you consume water with Flouride. There are options to avoid it, but I expect the risks of those (like drinking all your water from plastic water bottles where there isn't flouride in them) outweight any potential benefit.

Also, science :)

Walking down the road, you'd be inhaling many chemicals magnitudes more harmful to you than Flouride.

networkn

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#2678710 22-Mar-2021 17:48

rugrat:

Iodine benefits everyone, and doesn't cause bones to get weaker in old age.

I'd take weak(er) bones over crappy teeth I think. Eating is mandatory, pole vaulting at 80, not as much! :)

Each to their own.

rugrat

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#2678732 22-Mar-2021 18:08

networkn:

]

I'd take weak(er) bones over crappy teeth I think. Eating is mandatory, pole vaulting at 80, not as much! :)

Each to their own.

I'm seen people eat with no teeth, and people with crappy bones lose their mobility.

Plus if someone takes care of their teeth, and parents make sure their children brush then can have good teeth when in older age.

No fluoridated water when I was a kid, and still have all my teeth except the wisdom ones. :)

Rikkitic

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#2678741 22-Mar-2021 18:34

Individual anecdotes don't mean a thing. I have been drinking fluoridated water and swallowing fluoride toothpaste all my life. I am in my 70s and my bones are just fine. Fluoride works. Most children who don't get it end up with rotten teeth. You can't hold yourself up as proof of anything.

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#2678752 22-Mar-2021 19:25

It's not really about the individual. It's about public health and all the poor families that need the additional protection and for whom the benefits are significant and proven. You'll have to console yourself with the thought you are taking one for the team.

rugrat

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#2678755 22-Mar-2021 19:42

networkn: It's not really about the individual. It's about public health and all the poor families that need the additional protection and for whom the benefits are significant and proven. You'll have to console yourself with the thought you are taking one for the team.

Yep ok. Even though I can find research saying negative effect on bones it doesn’t indicate how many people it lowers future life standard for, where as the fluoride will help a lot have better future life.

Pity it can’t be done through schools or something so as not to take away individual choice.

Rikkitic

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#2678757 22-Mar-2021 19:46

rugrat:
Pity it can’t be done through schools or something so as not to take away individual choice.

I guess you have the individual choice not to drink city water.

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gzt

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#2678797 22-Mar-2021 20:25

rugrat:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352187219300415

The above is more current research on fluoride and effects on bones.

This is interesting enough but on casual inspection skimming I don't see any evidence there to support your claims. There are many technical measures in the paper but these are not correlated to any actual functional weakness or health condition or any statistical correlation with fall injuries etc. It's unclear if these measurements have any correlation to risk or function. There are no such claims in the paper.

Are you aware of any such correlations or claims?

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