Israel Iran War

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#3384850 16-Jun-2025 19:19

BarTender:

If Israel said tomorrow they are ceasing all military activities in Gaza and the West Bank, vacating all the illegal settlements and committed to a two state or one state pathway where all humans on that land had equal rights… so much of the whole region’s problems would end overnight.

That is unbelievably naive. Israel has nothing to do with Yemen or Sudan, both of which make Gaza seem like a picnic, while Iran is up to their eyeballs in both. That's without mentioning Hezbollah or Hamas, both of which have always been actively supported by Iran.

The fact is lot of the region sees Israel as a useful counterbalance to Iran. After what happened in Jordan in the 1970s they certainly have no interest in taking Palestinian refugees in, they don't need a civil war as well.

The Palestinian problem has no real solution.

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#3384859 16-Jun-2025 19:41

Handle9:

BarTender:

If Israel said tomorrow they are ceasing all military activities in Gaza and the West Bank, vacating all the illegal settlements and committed to a two state or one state pathway where all humans on that land had equal rights… so much of the whole region’s problems would end overnight.

That is unbelievably naive. Israel has nothing to do with Yemen or Sudan, both of which make Gaza seem like a picnic, while Iran is up to their eyeballs in both. That's without mentioning Hezbollah or Hamas, both of which have always been actively supported by Iran.

The fact is lot of the region sees Israel as a useful counterbalance to Iran. After what happened in Jordan in the 1970s they certainly have no interest in taking Palestinian refugees in, they don't need a civil war as well.

The Palestinian problem has no real solution.

Yemen and has been a disaster since 2015 much like East Timor where different regions of the area were sick of the regime and wanted to break apart and the ruling class didn’t want to lose the natural resources underground.

Sudan has blown up due to two factions wanting complete control over the area after the UK left the country to fester massive corruption since the 1950s.

As I will continue to say I agree Iran has been backing one side of the extremists in both conflicts with the leaders desire for religious extremism.

It all stems from religious extremism on both sides and the need for cheap oil or resources that can be exploited.

But the USA and Israel has had their fingers on the dial for many of the regime changes in the whole region since after WW II.

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#3384995 17-Jun-2025 03:56

BarTender:

But the USA and Israel has had their fingers on the dial for many of the regime changes in the whole region since after WW II.

Citation required for that one.

elpenguino

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#3385340 18-Jun-2025 16:38

Handle9:

BarTender:

If Israel said tomorrow they are ceasing all military activities in Gaza and the West Bank, vacating all the illegal settlements and committed to a two state or one state pathway where all humans on that land had equal rights… so much of the whole region’s problems would end overnight.

That is unbelievably naive. Israel has nothing to do with Yemen or Sudan, both of which make Gaza seem like a picnic, while Iran is up to their eyeballs in both. That's without mentioning Hezbollah or Hamas, both of which have always been actively supported by Iran.

The fact is lot of the region sees Israel as a useful counterbalance to Iran. After what happened in Jordan in the 1970s they certainly have no interest in taking Palestinian refugees in, they don't need a civil war as well.

The Palestinian problem has no real solution.

Oh but it does. There is a solution to end it once and for all. You could call it a final solution.

Justified by stories in an old book.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

tdgeek

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#3385358 18-Jun-2025 19:23

A lot of variables playing out.

Israel is winning, weakening Iran heavily

Iran's attacks are reduced in volumes of missiles, either running out, or easing back to unleash a barrage if them being backed into a corner plays out. Much Like Hitler, we are beaten, so attack with everything, I don't care about my citizens, just unleash.

Trump was elected partly on no more wars, yet he is warming to a direct involvement. Likely that as Israel is winning, he wants to jump on that bandwagon and take credit when the war is won.

Trump is reducing costs to his Government, at the expense of his citizens, and taxing his citizens, he wont want to spend money and lives on another war, already shown that with Ukraine

The other issue is regime change. USA efforts in that regard are worse than poor.

Any possibility of a negotiation is on hold as USA is indirectly involved. If USA was directly involved, its a war to the end. Being stuck with a country that has no Government in Iran, other factions filling the gap, oil supply issues, issues within the wider Middle East given that USA is stationed widely there.

Now as a FFS, Trump is happy if Putin steps in as a peacemaker.

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#3385649 20-Jun-2025 09:23

multiple videos online and reports that some Iranians are celebrating their govt being bombed by Israel!

gzt

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#3385650 20-Jun-2025 09:45

I have noted one or two promoted by dubious enterprises. It should not be surprising if they are misleading and really about somethings else:

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/06/19/how-out-of-context-videos-mislead-social-media-users-on-the-israel-iran-conflict

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sir1963

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#3385777 20-Jun-2025 14:50

Handle9:

BarTender:

But the USA and Israel has had their fingers on the dial for many of the regime changes in the whole region since after WW II.

Citation required for that one.

USA blocking any resolutions in the UN over the illegal Israeli settlements...

Handle9

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#3385779 20-Jun-2025 14:54

sir1963:

BarTender:

But the USA and Israel has had their fingers on the dial for many of the regime changes in the whole region since after WW II.

USA blocking any resolutions in the UN over the illegal Israeli settlements...

So what? Illegal settlements are not regime change.

Rikkitic

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#3385790 20-Jun-2025 15:57

Handle9:

So what? Illegal settlements are not regime change.

Don't know about Israel but I think the Iranian coups of 1953 and the imposition of the Shah might qualify for the USA.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Handle9

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#3385794 20-Jun-2025 16:39

Rikkitic:

Handle9:

So what? Illegal settlements are not regime change.

Don't know about Israel but I think the Iranian coups of 1953 and the imposition of the Shah might qualify for the USA.

Sure, as does the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. They were all US actions.

Of course the implication of the original post was that Israel were a driving force which they weren’t.

tdgeek

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#3385796 20-Jun-2025 18:20

Trump is giving 2 weeks to allow possible diplomatic discussions to get underway. I agree with that. Trump wants a win, and a win by the US going in is extremely problematic. Iran are going to have discussions with Europe. Not ideal for Trump as they might win. Then you have Netanyahu whose only goal is regime change. The elephant in the room is the day after. US has circa 40,000 troops nearby. In other non volatile Middle East nations. A key issue is a forever war, such as Iraq and Afghanistan. Seems that Trumps go to for accurate info is Netanyahu, not his own defence staff.

A lot to consider, but a great amount of this is emotional goals from Netanyahu and Trump. Rather than factual goals of Iran and if it gets pushed into a corner it will go wild, itself and its many global proxy associates. It needs a diplomatic solution where Iran has the option to stop enrichment, prove its only goal is energy (even though they are awash with oil and gas) If Iran is given a sensible option (all things considered) that they can accept and remain intact and potentially grow. Or Not. If its a not, then its likely a forever war, supported by Iran's ally, Russia, as well as the many global proxies who will become international guerilla's against the US and Trump

Rikkitic

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#3385799 20-Jun-2025 19:02

Handle9:

Of course the implication of the original post was that Israel were a driving force which they weren’t.

It is a matter of definition. Just because Israel didn't declare war on Assad doesn't mean they weren't involved in his removal.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Handle9

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#3385809 20-Jun-2025 19:45

Rikkitic:

Handle9:

Of course the implication of the original post was that Israel were a driving force which they weren’t.

It is a matter of definition. Just because Israel didn't declare war on Assad doesn't mean they weren't involved in his removal.

If they were it should be a simple matter to produce the requested citations. Also Syria isn't "many" regime changes.

Israel is actively engaged in war crimes in Gazza. That doesn't make them responsible for all the unrest in the region. Iran is in many of them up to their eyeballs, particularly any Sunni-Shia conflict.

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#3385812 20-Jun-2025 19:52

As usual most of the coverage of this mess is focussed on the leaders, largely ignoring the impact it has on ordinary people who have done nothing wrong.

My wife has kids in her class stuck in Jordan. With the airspace closed they can't get back to the UAE. They can hear explosions from Israeli intercepts of missiles. It's bloody awful.

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