Israel Iran War

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tdgeek

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#319923 14-Jun-2025 17:35

New thread. IMO they are both rogue states. Israel enabled by the US and especially Trump. Be nice, compliment Trump, that allows you to do what you want

Trump told Netanyu to hold back while I solve the enrichment issue with Iran. Didnt happen, but Trump knew that so they removed and warned of issues. In the know. Could have intervened, but no. Now there is a full blown war. So a nuclear agreement (yes I know it was a very slow burn, but if there is a slow burn, that's better than a fast burn which we now have). Israel and US have decreed that working with Iran is a non issue. So as Trump does, internationally or nationally, its another war, or an escalating existing war

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#3384138 14-Jun-2025 20:33

I am fairly certain as per news reports I have seen that Netanyahu is attacking Iran for a few reasons.

He knows he can as the US will defend him unreservedly no matter what he does.
His corruption trial is nearing the end and this helps divert attention from that as he doesn't want to be impeached or have his government brought down as then he would most likely end up in jail.
He has been saying than Iran is days away from having a nuclear weapon for well over 20 years but the latest IAEA report seems to have been what Netanyahu was waiting for even though Iran disputes the findings in regards to building a nuclear weapon.
It's obvious that Netanyahu wants to change the government in Iran, and killing their leaders is all he knows.
He has cut off all communication in Gaza, so can accelerate his genocide there and also accelerate his ethnic cleansing which will most likely end up with a genocide in the West Bank.

I know Iran lies all the time, bur Israel lies with such frequency and conviction calling any legitimate criticism antisemitism and they initiated the unprovoked attack. My suspicion is his main driver for attacking Iran is so that he can divert attention away from the genocide in Gaza. The news media isn't talking about Gaza anymore so he will take that as a win.

ezbee

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#3384301 15-Jun-2025 12:12

Trump lies all the time , so we have a perfect triad of ...
Netanyahu,
Iranian leadership that mercilessly persecutes its own, helped Assad in Syria to do that to his etc,
Trump who is infamous at lying all day every day.

Trumps calls with leaders that never happened, deals that never existed, etc.
Down to Elon Musk level pettiness of outrageously cheating at games, proclaiming a sporting genius.

None are reliable witnesses to their own actions or intentions.
He would just create something that makes him look strong as puppet master, to make him look strong.

None are forces of good for their own people or the world.

tdgeek

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#3384448 15-Jun-2025 17:37

ezbee:

Trump lies all the time , so we have a perfect triad of ...
Netanyahu,
Iranian leadership that mercilessly persecutes its own, helped Assad in Syria to do that to his etc,
Trump who is infamous at lying all day every day.

Trumps calls with leaders that never happened, deals that never existed, etc.
Down to Elon Musk level pettiness of outrageously cheating at games, proclaiming a sporting genius.

None are reliable witnesses to their own actions or intentions.
He would just create something that makes him look strong as puppet master, to make him look strong.

None are forces of good for their own people or the world.

Its a pretty sad time

Trump causing wars, enabling Israel against Palestine (Hamas is he excuse)

Enabling Israel against Iran

Enabling Russia against Ukraine, although to his credit eventually realised he was being played. The rest of us and the media knew that forever.

Netanyahu criticised Iran for hitting residential targets. Unsure if thats intentional, given Iran's lack of pinpoint high tech munitions targeting. But its fine that Netanyahu, like Putin, targets, schools, kindergartens, hospitals and residential areas in Palestine, then blocks humanitarian aid and food

xlinknz

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#3384458 15-Jun-2025 18:07

In the so called ruled based world order I'm sure most western countries will dutifully summon their Israeli diplomats to express their 'concern' at Israels preemptive strike (just as they have about what is occurring in Gaza)

Handle9

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#3384589 16-Jun-2025 05:36

tdgeek:

ezbee:

Trump lies all the time , so we have a perfect triad of ...
Netanyahu,
Iranian leadership that mercilessly persecutes its own, helped Assad in Syria to do that to his etc,
Trump who is infamous at lying all day every day.

Trumps calls with leaders that never happened, deals that never existed, etc.
Down to Elon Musk level pettiness of outrageously cheating at games, proclaiming a sporting genius.

None are reliable witnesses to their own actions or intentions.
He would just create something that makes him look strong as puppet master, to make him look strong.

None are forces of good for their own people or the world.

Its a pretty sad time

Trump causing wars, enabling Israel against Palestine (Hamas is he excuse)

Enabling Israel against Iran

Enabling Russia against Ukraine, although to his credit eventually realised he was being played. The rest of us and the media knew that forever.

Netanyahu criticised Iran for hitting residential targets. Unsure if thats intentional, given Iran's lack of pinpoint high tech munitions targeting. But its fine that Netanyahu, like Putin, targets, schools, kindergartens, hospitals and residential areas in Palestine, then blocks humanitarian aid and food

Gaza was happening before Trump was in power and Biden was unable to stop it. They also attacked Iran, Iraq and Syria in October last year, before the election.

Israel is one of the last remaining third rails of American politics, they can do almost whatever they like and the Israel lobby in congress will protect them from consequences.

BarTender

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#3384771 16-Jun-2025 15:28

Handle9: Gaza was happening before Trump was in power and Biden was unable to stop it. They also attacked Iran, Iraq and Syria in October last year, before the election.

Israel is one of the last remaining third rails of American politics, they can do almost whatever they like and the Israel lobby in congress will protect them from consequences.

In my view Biden is just as complicit in the genocide in Gaza as Trump. The last president who properly told Israel to stop was Regan and they stopped.

Biden was more than capable of stopping Israel with a single phone call. Yes it would have been political suicide for Biden as then AIPAC would have screamed antisemitism on the megaphone. But if Biden had said "Genocide is bad and I am stopping it" Then the Gaza war would have ended that very day. Biden is one of the most pro-Israel Democrat leaders in many election cycles.

cruxis

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#3384782 16-Jun-2025 15:50

As Israel is the aggressor and striked first and broke the so called "rules based order". I expect wide spread Western sanctions just like what was put on Russia right?😆

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wellygary

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#3384783 16-Jun-2025 15:52

War between Iran and Israel has been inevitable, its was really only a question of when..... -who actually started it isn't material to any of the parties...

This is from the IAEA a day before it all went nuts...

https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/25/06/gov2025-38.pdf

3. Finds that Iran’s many failures to uphold its obligations since 2019 to provide the Agency with
full and timely cooperation regarding undeclared nuclear material and activities at multiple undeclared
locations in Iran, as detailed in GOV/2025/25 constitutes non-compliance with its obligations under its
Safeguards Agreement with the Agency in the context of Article XII.C of the Agency’s Statute;

4. Finds also consistent with Article 19 of Iran’s Comprehensive Safeguards Agreement,
INFCIRC/214, that the Agency is not able to verify that there has been no diversion of nuclear material
required to be safeguarded under the Agreement to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices

Israel have for years had a red line of saying it was unacceptable for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons,

This was 2012
https://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2012/sep/27/binyamin-netanyahu-israel

BarTender

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#3384820 16-Jun-2025 18:13

wellygary: War between Iran and Israel has been inevitable, its was really only a question of when..... -who actually started it isn't material to any of the parties..

So you’re trying to say Israel were always going to attack Iran it was just a matter of when. Gotcha.

A few key points.

Israels PM has claimed multiple times since 1992 than Iran has been building a nuclear weapon.
Iran has been frequently inspected by the IAEA as it’s a member of the NPT.
It’s understood that Israel who isn’t a member of NPT has between 300 and 400 nuclear weapons as it has consistently ignored UN resolutions and had a confirm or deny strategy in regards to if it has them or not.
The IAEA vote on the latest report was 19 to 3 with 11 abstentions. If there was genuine concern about Irans plans to build a nuclear weapon I think the IAEA would have been a lot more conclusive and resolute with their warnings than 50/50 don’t you think?
Israel did strike Iran first.

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#3384825 16-Jun-2025 18:19

wellygary: This is from the IAEA a day before it all went nuts...

On the other hand Israel has never allowed even one IAEA inspection in Israel

Israel is widely acknowledged to have proliferated nuclear weapons technologies to 3rd parties on several occasions. One well known case being to a U.S ally against 'communism' at the time the apartheid regime South Africa.

Compliance with the NPT like any international treaty signed by any country is based on goodwill and mutual interests. There is no clause saying 'you will be bombed'. The current issue has been 'inevitable' only since Trump unilaterally withdrew from the deal negotiated by Obama where Iran would refrain from some nuclear activities in exchange for removal of existing and longstanding USA sanctions.

Handle9

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#3384831 16-Jun-2025 18:39

Iran isn’t the good guy here. There are no innocent parties in this, just various degrees of culpability. It’s a complex region where many countries are engaged in various proxy wars and low level attacks on each other. This is a significant escalation but it’s also not unprovoked. Anyone thinking Iran is the voice of peace in the region needs their heads read.

tdgeek

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#3384837 16-Jun-2025 18:51

Trump has announced that there is a good chance he can do a deal. But also. sometimes they just have to fight it out. Seems to a copy/paste from a speech re Russia v Ukraine

BarTender

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#3384842 16-Jun-2025 19:02

Handle9: Iran isn’t the good guy here. There are no innocent parties in this, just various degrees of culpability. It’s a complex region where many countries are engaged in various proxy wars and low level attacks on each other. This is a significant escalation but it’s also not unprovoked. Anyone thinking Iran is the voice of peace in the region needs their heads read.

I don’t think anyone here has said that Iran is the good guy here. But between Israel and Iran it’s my view that Israel has been a far worse genocidal apartheid pariah state between the two of them.

Israel continues to be a force for destabilising the region waging the proxy war on the behalf of the US. The problem is the US and the world is hooked on cheap oil and any intention from any of the gulf states to assert independence has always resulted in that governments being overthrown by the US and some brutal dictator being installed who takes their orders from the US. Where ultimately the native population suffer.

If Israel said tomorrow they are ceasing all military activities in Gaza and the West Bank, vacating all the illegal settlements and committed to a two state or one state pathway where all humans on that land had equal rights… so much of the whole region’s problems would end overnight.

But we all know there is less than zero chance of that ever happening in my or my children’s lifetime.

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#3384845 16-Jun-2025 19:11

If only there had been some sort of plan to curtail Iran's nuclear ambitions. A plan agreed to by a whole bunch of parties, including Iran, who would have stood to benefit from it. You could call it a ... joint comprehensive plan of action, and even verify that Iran was sticking to it.

And then, because Obama once said a mean thing about an orange clown, you could unilaterally declare (against all the evidence, including from your own intelligence people) that it wasn't working, tear it down, and sanction the hell out of Iran.

Now, I'm not saying Iran are the good guys here. Clearly, they're theocratic thugs who want to live in the social dark ages and in the long run both Iran and everyone else would be much better off if they practiced their extremism quietly in the privacy of their own homes like the rest of us do. However, they were being pretty chill about the whole thing by openly and gradually enriching uranium over a period of years to try to encourage people to bring back the agreement, because, you know, we weren't doing this before, and we can stop any time you guys want. If Israel is scared of an Iranian bomb right now, they have only themselves to blame. Well, they can blame Trump as well, but lots of people think Netanyahu was in his ear and the whole "breaking something Obama did" thing was just a nice little treat to reflect upon with a hamburder by the fire on a cold winter's night.

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SaltyNZ

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#3384846 16-Jun-2025 19:12

tdgeek:

Trump has announced that there is a good chance he can do a deal. But also. sometimes they just have to fight it out. Seems to a copy/paste from a speech re Russia v Ukraine

Oh, if Trump had been president when Israel started bombing Iran last week, the war would never have happened. But he'll get a deal in 24 hours, it'll be easy.

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