Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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deepred

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#3223747 28-Apr-2024 17:39

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quickymart:

A couple of the funnier cartoons I saw this morning:

^ the Republican party are turning against each other without the Democrats even lifting a finger.

Speaking of the American Civil War, the usual Trump apologists keep insisting that Dems are still the slavery party. I've noticed most if not all of them also believe that:

Hitler was a socialist
Putin is de-Nazifying Ukraine
Vaccines & 5G towers cause autism or transgenderism
Floods & bushfires are caused by "Jewish space lasers", Soros-funded cloud seeding, or too many Africans & Arabs
Islam isn't a race

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

neb

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#3223818 28-Apr-2024 21:34

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deepred: Hitler was a socialist

Technically he was, he was head of the National Socialist German Workers Party (compare that to the Republican Fascist Party of Mussolini), and a lot of his pre-war policies were... well the word "socialist" has been mangled into unrecognisability in the US but by the standards of the day and the way it was used then he was pretty socialist.

However AFAICT what the US far right believes has nothing to do with history but is some garbled mishmash that includes, among other things, the "fact" that Soros funded the Nazis.

deepred

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#3223823 28-Apr-2024 21:45

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neb:

deepred: Hitler was a socialist

Technically he was, he was head of the National Socialist German Workers Party (compare that to the Republican Fascist Party of Mussolini), and a lot of his pre-war policies were... well the word "socialist" has been mangled into unrecognisability in the US but by the standards of the day and the way it was used then he was pretty socialist.

However AFAICT what the US far right believes has nothing to do with history but is some garbled mishmash that includes, among other things, the "fact" that Soros funded the Nazis.

In practice, Hitler forced actual socialists to wear red triangle badges.

https://fullfact.org/online/nazis-socialists/

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

quickymart

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#3223824 28-Apr-2024 21:48

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Couple of interesting Trump articles I saw today:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/26/opinions/trump-trial-tucker-carlson-ghitis/index.html >> while this is an opinion piece, I'm inclined to agree with the author's sentiment - the Truth (and I don't mean Truth Social) is helping Trump in his court case

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/28/politics/trump-legal-woes-analysis/index.html >> pulls apart the recent polling since his court cases started. While you may expect his polling would be shooting up to the moon given what's playing out in court, this isn't quite the case

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/515395/us-election-forecaster-with-near-perfect-track-record-not-ready-to-call-2024-just-yet >> highly accurate election predictor Allan Lichtman says it's most likely Biden will win again in November (although he's not 100% calling it just yet) - having said that, a lot would have to go wrong between now and then for him to lose to Trump.

neb

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#3223829 28-Apr-2024 22:13

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deepred: In practice, Hitler forced actual socialists to wear red triangle badges.

The red triangles were a grab-bag for all sorts of political prisoners, but was principally used for communists. In terms of socialist policies, they had subsidised housing for workers, major public works programs like roads and railways, state-subsidised and run leisure programs and holiday programs, funding for newlyweds and children, programs to allow anyone to own their own car (practically unheard of elsewhere)... a lot of their policies were what left-wing governments would do today, not right-wing governments. So it's not nearly as clear-cut as saying "right wing therefore not socialist".

deepred

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#3223833 28-Apr-2024 22:41

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neb:

deepred: In practice, Hitler forced actual socialists to wear red triangle badges.

The red triangles were a grab-bag for all sorts of political prisoners, but was principally used for communists. In terms of socialist policies, they had subsidised housing for workers, major public works programs like roads and railways, state-subsidised and run leisure programs and holiday programs, funding for newlyweds and children, programs to allow anyone to own their own car (practically unheard of elsewhere)... a lot of their policies were what left-wing governments would do today, not right-wing governments. So it's not nearly as clear-cut as saying "right wing therefore not socialist".

It was a producerist and exclusionary welfare nativist scheme for the "right kind" of German citizens, and certainly not a universalist soc-dem scheme like the one put in place by Michael Joseph Savage or FDR. Those who were Jewish, Romani, LGBT, or otherwise not making the cut were put into forced labour, or targeted by brownshirt squads.

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

quickymart

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#3223849 29-Apr-2024 07:07

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Conversely to my post above, this morning CNN has a new poll out showing Trump (somehow?) in the lead: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/28/politics/cnn-poll-trump-biden-matchup/index.html

SaltyNZ

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#3223875 29-Apr-2024 08:27

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quickymart:

Conversely to my post above, this morning CNN has a new poll out showing Trump (somehow?) in the lead: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/28/politics/cnn-poll-trump-biden-matchup/index.html

*Facepalm*

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SJB

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#3223902 29-Apr-2024 09:08

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quickymart:

Conversely to my post above, this morning CNN has a new poll out showing Trump (somehow?) in the lead: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/28/politics/cnn-poll-trump-biden-matchup/index.html

I don't want to be overly pessimistic but I just can't see Biden defeating Trump with these poll figures. They don't seem to be moving in Biden's direction. He has no momentum.

itxtme

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#3223960 29-Apr-2024 09:29

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SJB:

I don't want to be overly pessimistic but I just can't see Biden defeating Trump with these poll figures. They don't seem to be moving in Biden's direction. He has no momentum.

US politics is much more nuanced than this poll. For example there is no head to head poll to decide president. Its all on electoral votes and the magic number. So really we need to look at the polling of specific states. I want to believe that the Roe V Wade issue will have a big effect on female voters in those swing states. I also look at the mid terms and that did not go nearly as much to the republicans as most thought it would, nor how polls suggested it would. Time will tell

Rikkitic

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#3224013 29-Apr-2024 09:36

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This needs to be taken a lot more seriously than it is. People seem to keep thinking that it is just another electoral contest between left and right. Democrats keep trying to play by the rules. I genuinely believe that if Trump wins, it means the end of Western liberal democracy. If you could go back in time and stop Hitler, would you? This is that kind of moment.

Edit: To be clear, I am not talking about anything illegal, just employing every resource and trick that can be mustered to ensure Trump never gets near the White House again.

Right now those who oppose him are not yet pulling out all the stops to ensure his defeat.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

freitasm

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#3224096 29-Apr-2024 11:31

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Rikkitic:

This needs to be taken a lot more seriously than it is. People seem to keep thinking that it is just another electoral contest between left and right. Democrats keep trying to play by the rules.

That's exactly right. It's been said before that arguing with extremists, fascists, and alt-right is non-productive because they don't follow the same rules of civility others do.

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gzt

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#3224104 29-Apr-2024 12:01

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deepred: for the "right kind" of German citizens, and certainly not a universalist soc-dem scheme like the one put in place by Michael Joseph Savage or FDR. Those who were Jewish, Romani, LGBT, or otherwise not making the cut were put into forced labour, or targeted by brownshirt squads.

Yes, and the vast bulk of statements of a claimed socialist nature are from Goebbles the propaganda minister. Hitler's attitude was very different - there is a statement along the lines of 'what does it really matter that we will not nationalise industry and other socialist things - we control everything anyway.' Ie; Hitler would have happily called the party national hampster fanciers association or anything else if he thought it was going to be popular. Trade unions were effectively banned and eliminated very early. Anyway, although that is not far from some idiots we know of, back to the topic.

SJB

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#3224167 29-Apr-2024 12:31

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itxtme:

SJB:

I don't want to be overly pessimistic but I just can't see Biden defeating Trump with these poll figures. They don't seem to be moving in Biden's direction. He has no momentum.

US politics is much more nuanced than this poll. For example there is no head to head poll to decide president. Its all on electoral votes and the magic number. So really we need to look at the polling of specific states. I want to believe that the Roe V Wade issue will have a big effect on female voters in those swing states. I also look at the mid terms and that did not go nearly as much to the republicans as most thought it would, nor how polls suggested it would. Time will tell

As I've posted before the swing states are the only ones that matter. Trump was ahead in all of them in the last polls I saw.

Polls have been wrong before. Many times.

SaltyNZ

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#3224169 29-Apr-2024 12:37

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SJB:

As I've posted before the swing states are the only ones that matter. Trump was ahead in all of them in the last polls I saw.

That's true, but it misses the point. In a sane world, Trump should not be ahead anywhere. Anyone else with his track record would be trailing a rock with googly eyes stuck on 100-0. The fact that he's not only in the race at all, but possibly winning it is horrifying. It was horrifying the first time. But the way things are going reality is simply going to confirm his narcissistic conclusion that he is the most important person in the world and everything and everyone should care only about him, and there will be nothing stopping him from turning the US into the largest nuclear armed crime syndicate in de jure, even if arguably it already is in de facto.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

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