Our next national election - policies, promises and people

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MikeB4
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#2423819 19-Feb-2020 10:55

One thing I would like to see now is in light of the SFO investigation and Winston Peters refusal to step aside Labour should cast NZF adrift now and go until the election with the Green Party only as partner. That would give them from memory 54 seats to National 55 +1 puppet. They could govern as a minority until the election or call an snap election, I haven't checked the law regarding this as an election date has already been announced.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

freitasm

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#2423823 19-Feb-2020 10:57

Simon Bridges gotta be joking: "SFO probe adds to reasons Winston Peters must step down - Simon Bridges":

National Party leader Simon Bridges says the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) investigation into the New Zealand First Foundation adds weight to calls for Winston Peters to be stood down.

The opposition has also been pushing for the New Zealand First leader and deputy prime minister to step down amid questions about whether his party had anything to do with photos of journalists ending up on a blog linked to WhaleOil.

Bridges told Morning Report that putting everything together, it was not a good look for New Zealand First and that Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern had adopted a "hear no evil, see no evil" position on the matter.

Yes, but no word on his resignation when his party gets illegal donations, right?

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MikeB4

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#2423824 19-Feb-2020 10:57

@tdgeek I will say it again for clarity. What IRD sees as income is not the same as what MSD sees as income.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

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#2423827 19-Feb-2020 11:02

@freitasm double standards are a corner stone of politics 😀 I agree, Bridges should also step down as leader however ANY potential replacement is just as horrific

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#2423828 19-Feb-2020 11:09

freitasm:

Simon Bridges gotta be joking: "SFO probe adds to reasons Winston Peters must step down - Simon Bridges":

National Party leader Simon Bridges says the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) investigation into the New Zealand First Foundation adds weight to calls for Winston Peters to be stood down.

The opposition has also been pushing for the New Zealand First leader and deputy prime minister to step down amid questions about whether his party had anything to do with photos of journalists ending up on a blog linked to WhaleOil.

Bridges told Morning Report that putting everything together, it was not a good look for New Zealand First and that Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern had adopted a "hear no evil, see no evil" position on the matter.

Yes, but no word on his resignation when his party gets illegal donations, right?

Exactly, and this isnt a partisan thing. Yesterday the 100k donation to National that they are being investigated on, was added to by another. Where is the equality? Should we deal with the first one, then move into the second? Its very bizarre. Or was NZFF's more then $200,000?

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#2423829 19-Feb-2020 11:11

MikeB4:

@tdgeek I will say it again for clarity. What IRD sees as income is not the same as what MSD sees as income.

They then need to standardise income, share that data, and they can always incorporate income types that are not deemed to be income but MSD. Thus, MSD would know but not include them.

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GV27

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#2423834 19-Feb-2020 11:18

freitasm:

Simon Bridges gotta be joking: "SFO probe adds to reasons Winston Peters must step down - Simon Bridges":

National Party leader Simon Bridges says the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) investigation into the New Zealand First Foundation adds weight to calls for Winston Peters to be stood down.

The opposition has also been pushing for the New Zealand First leader and deputy prime minister to step down amid questions about whether his party had anything to do with photos of journalists ending up on a blog linked to WhaleOil.

Bridges told Morning Report that putting everything together, it was not a good look for New Zealand First and that Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern had adopted a "hear no evil, see no evil" position on the matter.

Yes, but no word on his resignation when his party gets illegal donations, right?

OK, and? Does this invalidate his critique of Winston Peters' actions and Ardern's inaction in dealing with it? Peters/Ardern are subject to the cabinet manual guidelines, Bridges isn't.

E: I will say this: There probably would be more pressure on him to go if the Nats actually had anyone who wasn't similarly tainted who could step in. He's pretty safe in that regard.

freitasm

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#2423836 19-Feb-2020 11:20

GV27:

OK, and? Does this invalidate his critique of Winston Peters' actions and Ardern's inaction in dealing with it? Peters/Ardern are subject to the cabinet manual guidelines, Bridges isn't.

Are you intentionally ignoring my comments?

I did not say this invalidate his critique. I said he did not mention his own failings. Double-standard is a fault in anyone's character in my view. If he wants to apply these standards he should thrive to follow them too.

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MikeB4

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#2423877 19-Feb-2020 11:35

tdgeek:

They then need to standardise income, share that data, and they can always incorporate income types that are not deemed to be income but MSD. Thus, MSD would know but not include them.

So we shouldn't deem overseas pensions as income for benefit purposes. We shouldn't regard income that is taxed offshore for benefit purposes. So we shouldn't regard equity in a house (not current home)/building as a chargeable asset for benefit purposes and so on. I am sorry but the income and asset assessment carried out by MSD are complex and data sharing with IRD only captures a small percentage.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#2423885 19-Feb-2020 11:44

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

They then need to standardise income, share that data, and they can always incorporate income types that are not deemed to be income but MSD. Thus, MSD would know but not include them.

So we shouldn't deem overseas pensions as income for benefit purposes. We shouldn't regard income that is taxed offshore for benefit purposes. So we shouldn't regard equity in a house (not current home)/building as a chargeable asset for benefit purposes and so on. I am sorry but the income and asset assessment carried out by MSD are complex and data sharing with IRD only captures a small percentage.

This discussion was about income not assets

Right now pensions are not means tested. If we get to a point where we cannot afford to pay pensions to wealthy people, and pay winter power payments to wealthy people, then yes, if you get an income, we want to know about it.

MikeB4

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#2423890 19-Feb-2020 11:54

@tdgeek supplementary benefits, special grants and programmes are ASSET and income tested. Assets for this purposes includes net equity in property not used as the family home. So if you are to charge income and assets against entitlement this has be verified and assessed as prescribed by the empowering legislation. You then add considerable cost the the winter power grant scheme. MSD would have to to employ a lot more frontline staff and would probably need to open more offices just to do this. There is in excess of 650,000 in receipt of NZ super that would need to be assessed and reviewed on a cycle yearly.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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tdgeek

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#2423895 19-Feb-2020 12:02

MikeB4:

@tdgeek supplementary benefits, special grants and programmes are ASSET and income tested. Assets for this purposes includes net equity in property not used as the family home. So if you are to charge income and assets against entitlement this has be verified and assessed as prescribed by the empowering legislation. You then add considerable cost the the winter power grant scheme. MSD would have to to employ a lot more frontline staff and would probably need to open more offices just to do this. There is in excess of 650,000 in receipt of NZ super that would need to be assessed and reviewed on a cycle yearly.

Ok, cancel the winter power payment. It never existed before, so no harm, no foul. Better to provide help where 100% of the recievers need it, and stop wasting the cost of giving cash to people that don't need it. Thats just throwing money away and can taxpayers afford that? Im sure there must be a cheaper means of deciding who is a low income beneficiary, that doesnt also have a block of flats in Remuera for pocket money. Or if you do, just don't say?

GV27

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#2423901 19-Feb-2020 12:08

freitasm:

Are you intentionally ignoring my comments?

I did not say this invalidate his critique. I said he did not mention his own failings. Double-standard is a fault in anyone's character in my view. If he wants to apply these standards he should thrive to follow them too.

Perhaps I am less accepting of this approach given that Winston has spent weeks dodging any questions about his own party with the phrase "Only one party in New Zealand is under investigation by the SFO" - he did this at Waitangi.

I'm also not sure who we then get to hold the politicians to account if we are going to start putting asterisks by the names of anyone criticising them. No would be able to say anything. Simon Bridges is the epitome of a stopped clock but on this occasion, he is right.

freitasm

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#2423949 19-Feb-2020 12:23

GV27:

freitasm:

Are you intentionally ignoring my comments?

I did not say this invalidate his critique. I said he did not mention his own failings. Double-standard is a fault in anyone's character in my view. If he wants to apply these standards he should thrive to follow them too.

Perhaps I am less accepting of this approach given that Winston has spent weeks dodging any questions about his own party with the phrase "Only one party in New Zealand is under investigation by the SFO" - he did this at Waitangi.

I'm also not sure who we then get to hold the politicians to account if we are going to start putting asterisks by the names of anyone criticising them. No would be able to say anything. Simon Bridges is the epitome of a stopped clock but on this occasion, he is right.

You are incorrectly tagging me as a Winston supporter. I believe that party leaders should be held accountable - regardless of being in government or not.

In this case both should be held accountable. He can say whatever he wants about the other party. Ignoring what's happening on his own party shows a lack of awareness at least or a lack of standards. He's wrong for not pointing out the failings on his own party.

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GV27

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#2423993 19-Feb-2020 13:16

freitasm:

In this case both should be held accountable. He can say whatever he wants about the other party. Ignoring what's happening on his own party shows a lack of awareness at least or a lack of standards. He's wrong for not pointing out the failings on his own party.

Is it reasonable to expect politicians to put out a list of things they've stuffed up before critiquing anyone else though? Bridges has already said no one from the National Party was charged and he considers himself vindicated.

No update on how useless Maureen Pugh currently is either, to be fair.

I've come to the conclusion that JA is playing for time until she can snap if she has to. She's smart enough to know she can't ride this out and also smart enough to know Winston is probably cooked. Once she's got the mechanisations in place to switch to a snap campaign, I'm convinced she'll bring the election forward on the basis that the country needs stable govt.

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