The politicisation of NZ's covid response

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Forums › Politics › The politicisation of NZ's covid response

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#2867608 13-Feb-2022 15:30

I've been looking around for live streams to get some idea what it's all about. Found one earlier. Some issues with the weather apparently:

.. bring it on.. weather manipulation here is unbelievable ... they think by destroying all our stuff...

It's getting windy down there.

arcon

423 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2867660 13-Feb-2022 15:41

Beccara:

Rolling in brute force is not the answer, you think tanks make this go away?

Thank goodness we don't have tanks because those are bad for optics... and streets lol. But an armed forces response in some form will 100% make them go away from Parliament which needs to happen. They need to see consequences to terrible behavior otherwise it only serves to encourage extremism, and could make people lose faith in law enforcement and the will of governance to defend regular folk.

Refusing to act out of fear just encourages their bullying tactics and worse, gives them justification in their anti-head that they scored a win for an insane narrative. I can't see how that's useful for society going forward. Mandates can't be bullying if refusal to comply is based off a false reality they designed for themselves.

Beccara

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#2867662 13-Feb-2022 15:50

I fail to see what dispersing them outwards is going to achieve, sure the now bog will be back under parliament protection but now you will have photos and videos of camouflaged soldiers gassing and dragging people away under the silhouette of the beehive, all for a trespass charge

That WILL drive more people to their cause, people who dont quite see the justification for continuing passports given Omni or mandates given the boarder opening. People who were on the fence will not respond well to images of brute force especially since the past couple of days has produced a lot of footage of peaceful protesters.

On the other hand as the crowd thins out (which it's doing) only the hardcore remain and you'll see more and more footage of "covid isn't real!"/"hang them all"/SovCit crap and moderate mainstream kiwi's will see what they really are

edit:// Remember a chunk of NZ is going to be left scratching it's head at the Army rolling in to parliament and Ihumātao's response, yes I know they aren't the same thing but a chunk of voters on the right will see it

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GV27

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#2867782 13-Feb-2022 16:18

Beccara:

On the other hand as the crowd thins out (which it's doing) only the hardcore remain and you'll see more and more footage of "covid isn't real!"/"hang them all"/SovCit crap and moderate mainstream kiwi's will see what they really are

It's been patently obvious that it's the fake news/COVID truthers/Nutjobs for months now. This is the consequence of letting those people do what they want. The very fact we're in this situation is proof that the 'just sit back and let them make dicks of themselves' approach doesn't work.

As for rallying people to their cause; You're acting like there's no consequences to ordinary Kiwis seeing another group of idiots who get to not follow the rules without consequences. I can get a ticket for going 4kmh over a speed limit, but I can criminally trespass on the grounds of parliament in violation of health orders and nothing will happen to me? Come on.

I get that it's not good optics or whatever to have a protest broken up by force, but it's also a farce that law-abiding Kiwis have to sit back and watch 'the usual suspects' once again getting to do what they want without fear of consequence, at the site of an institution with a founding principal of one law for all. Well... how's that working out for us?

Beccara

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#2867786 13-Feb-2022 16:28

We're treading a REAL fine line with what happens at protests, what happens if we get a climate strike? the next land claim protest? 3 waters? Groundswell?.

We're clearly not going to agree so truce?

MaxineN

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#2867789 13-Feb-2022 16:37

Ge0rge: For a start, there are laws in NZ that prevent our military being used against our own population.

A good ol quote from BSG...

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GV27

5897 posts

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#2867790 13-Feb-2022 16:40

Beccara:

We're treading a REAL fine line with what happens at protests, what happens if we get a climate strike? the next land claim protest? 3 waters? Groundswell?.

We're clearly not going to agree so truce?

There's a clear difference between 'Generic Issue Protest #3' and 'Protest on parliamentary grounds that was trespassed days ago'.

At least, there probably should be.

Like I say, an aggravating view for me was being locked down in Auckland for over a hundred days and all the difficulties that came with it. So I appreciate that I might have a bit more of a black and white approach to this than some others.

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ezbee

2405 posts

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#2867794 13-Feb-2022 16:54

GV27, I have to agree we are setting a dangerous precedent.

Problem is any future protest for anything is going to expect similar gentle treatment,
and immunity for use of vehicles to blockade.
So you don't need to gather 10s thousands just a few campervans.

This is why you do have to act when protests go beyond the conventions of making their point and moving on.
Conventions that protests have worked with councils , police and speaker to ensure safety of participants etc.
Even ones that have gone ahead without express permission there is co-ordination for everyone's safety.

Here we have.
Long term blockage of Parliamentary precinct, attacks on school children, surrounding businesses , and people passing by.
In the past maybe a bit of banter, but this has gone much further.
Never mind some more unsanitary discoveries in the street. Now Footrot and Pinkeye to add to a pandemic.

You have to show up their gurus lies of immunity, by towing and prosecuting to fullness of the law.
Trespassing and taking away X 100 per day to grind them down.
Once the stories of real losses and consequences, that saying your a 'sovereign citizen' has no status in law.
Then they can see actions have consequences. The lies of the metaverse that they can just 'free range'.

quickymart

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#2867800 13-Feb-2022 17:11

So the coronavirus threat doesn't worry these guys, but pink eye and footrot do? I think someone has their priorities mixed up here.

Handle9

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#2867803 13-Feb-2022 17:17

Beccara:
Yeah but the image of Army/Police (which is what it will take) will get them more support, just like police rolling thru Auckland domain would have done. Let them burn themselves out with infighting and illness. I do chuckle tho that they 1 faction have implemented their own mandates at their anti-mandate protest:

That isn’t from New Zealand. It’s from the Canberra convoy.

quickymart

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#2867816 13-Feb-2022 18:08

Well if that's not correct, it looks like they're having sanitation problems, at least:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-convoy-parliament-protest-sanitation-issues-emerge-at-sodden-parliament-anti-vaccine-mandate-protest/VGB52DQWW7SIK5SD33TF2JKRCA/

JaseNZ

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#2867817 13-Feb-2022 18:30

Nothing much has been reported about the protestors in Picton that I have seen.

We have been staying up there in Waikawa for a week and they are all camped out as you come into Picton.

It's just a muddy swampy mess where they are now by the looks of it as we drove past heading back home.

More money that will have to be spent to clean up there bloody mess that will be left behind.

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freitasm

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#2867818 13-Feb-2022 18:38

Beccara:

Yeah but the image of Army/Police (which is what it will take) will get them more support, just like police rolling thru Auckland domain would have done. Let them burn themselves out with infighting and illness. I do chuckle tho that they 1 faction have implemented their own mandates at their anti-mandate protest:

This is not from Wellington - I am told this is from Canberra.

Beccara

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#2867819 13-Feb-2022 18:38

Handle9:

That isn’t from New Zealand. It’s from the Canberra convoy.

I can't go back and edit but thanks for the clarification, still a bit funny :) Maybe a mod can edit my post?

SJB

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#2867820 13-Feb-2022 18:41

Trouble is the police sound like they are using techniques developed for more 'normal' protests where there is one recognizable issue and a few organizers who can act as contacts for the police.

This is not the case here. There are many disparate groups and and no one who can speak on behalf of everyone protesting.

Personally I would close the area off so they can't come and go as they please and leave them there until they ask to leave. Allow food and water in obviously but nothing else. Conditions sound pretty unpleasant and people are going to start getting sick because of the sanitation issues. They will want to go then and others won't replace them.

The police commander sounded pretty clueless on the news tonight.

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