Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3168254 5-Dec-2023 09:52

MikeB4:

Shane Jones comes across as an angry old man shouting at kids on the street playing ball and also shout at the damn clouds. He should be long time retired. Its also disturbing that a politician in a democratic country has no idea what democracy is.

Maybe he is scared his billion dollar slush fund could be taken away from him.

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#3168259 5-Dec-2023 10:04

sir1963:

Its with great amusement that I read that Shane Jones said the protests are "Anti-democratic" whist ignoring his leaders foray into the gangster squad that was the anti-vaxer protesters on parliament grounds.

Protesting is inherently democratic. If you can't protest without fear, you don't have a democracy.

But often (for some reason!) people tend to feel that protests they agree with are democratic, whereas protests they don't agree with should be illegal and the protestors arrested. There was a massive thread right here not long ago which was split right down the middle between people who thought the Wellington rail protestors had every right to protest and people who thought they should be in jail.

Personally I think the way the police ought to have handled the parliament protests was to immediately tow all the protestors cars (which were parked illegally, and that has nothing to do with your right to protest), forbid anyone to take camping equipment into the area (it isn't a camping ground) and otherwise left it at that. Gets pretty uncomfortable sleeping on the ground. Without denying the right to protest at all, it would've dried up much faster that way.

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#3168260 5-Dec-2023 10:09

MikeB4:

Shane Jones comes across as an angry old man shouting at kids on the street playing ball and also shout at the damn clouds. He should be long time retired. Its also disturbing that a politician in a democratic country has no idea what democracy is.

When Winston finally retires (feet first, most likely!) Shane Jones won't get the votes. There will never be a Shane Jones cult of personality.

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michaelmurfy

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#3168277 5-Dec-2023 10:37

"Christopher Luxon says it's too early to protest against his one-week-old Government"

Is he serious right now? https://tkr.ro/e/EPc6J5bc1EXyq8vU

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#3168284 5-Dec-2023 11:10

michaelmurfy:

"Christopher Luxon says it's too early to protest against his one-week-old Government"

Is he serious right now? https://tkr.ro/e/EPc6J5bc1EXyq8vU

I can kind of see his point about calling it inappropriate to claim they have "genocidal intentions", but I definitely disagree that it's too early - people are protesting the things they have published as their policies. Before they implement those policies is exactly the right time to start protesting them.

sen8or

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#3168286 5-Dec-2023 11:16

TPM do seem to be operating on the "attack is the best form of defense" strategy, protesting before things are settled and the Govt is underway, not entirely a bad strategy to try and protect their position.

Part of me thinks they are crying foul over something that hasn't actually happened yet (i.e - there is to be a discussion over the terms of the treaty, but not yet anything about what the impact of those discussion are), but equally its likely already firmly entrenched in some minds what they want the outcome to be, discussions be damned, so to sit back and do nothing isn't an option either.

I don't think the first 100 day thing will be something Luxon want's to remember somehow.....

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#3168288 5-Dec-2023 11:30

Kyanar:

michaelmurfy:

"Christopher Luxon says it's too early to protest against his one-week-old Government"

Is he serious right now? https://tkr.ro/e/EPc6J5bc1EXyq8vU

I can kind of see his point about calling it inappropriate to claim they have "genocidal intentions", but I definitely disagree that it's too early - people are protesting the things they have published as their policies. Before they implement those policies is exactly the right time to start protesting them.

The government knows the highest rate of tobacco use is amongst Maori and Pacific peoples.
The government however wants/needs the tax on tobacco to balance their budget, so they are willing to cost lives for tax purposes.

If National et al were consistent then they would support decriminalisation of Marijuana , because that too has a blackmarket, as do other illegal substances.
If as they claim they are trying to "protect" tobacco outlets from ram raids, why are they now allowing pseudoephedrine back in and have pharmacists being targets ?

In opposition, what Luxon said/promised was fairly immaterial, he was not respeonsible for it and would never have to put his money where his mouth is.
Now he is PM, he has to realise that he is liable and people will judge him for it, will protest against it.

Luxon needs to develop a pair of balls and stop letting Winston and Seymour push him around. its now his time to actually be PM, balls and all.

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GV27

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#3168289 5-Dec-2023 11:49

sen8or:

Part of me thinks they are crying foul over something that hasn't actually happened yet (i.e - there is to be a discussion over the terms of the treaty, but not yet anything about what the impact of those discussion are), but equally its likely already firmly entrenched in some minds what they want the outcome to be, discussions be damned, so to sit back and do nothing isn't an option either.

I don't know how many on either side are interested in a discussion in the sense that they are exchanging ideas, moreso they are interested in a monopoly on them and their personally desired outcome.

A pity. There's possibly a great deal to be gained in some sort of actual discussion about the overall constitutional framework of the country and what should feed into it. Something tells me we aren't going to get that.

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#3168291 5-Dec-2023 12:00

sir1963:

The government knows the highest rate of tobacco use is amongst Maori and Pacific peoples.
The government however wants/needs the tax on tobacco to balance their budget, so they are willing to cost lives for tax purposes.

If National et al were consistent then they would support decriminalisation of Marijuana , because that too has a blackmarket, as do other illegal substances.
If as they claim they are trying to "protect" tobacco outlets from ram raids, why are they now allowing pseudoephedrine back in and have pharmacists being targets ?

In opposition, what Luxon said/promised was fairly immaterial, he was not respeonsible for it and would never have to put his money where his mouth is.
Now he is PM, he has to realise that he is liable and people will judge him for it, will protest against it.

Luxon needs to develop a pair of balls and stop letting Winston and Seymour push him around. its now his time to actually be PM, balls and all.

Don't get me wrong, I agree wholeheartedly that there is so much wrong with the decision. But calling it "genocidal intentions" is way over the top and offensively hyperbolic. There's a lot of other words for it, that carry significant impact, but pulling the "genocide" card just serves to weaken your position (obviously not your as in you, but you know what I mean). It's just hard to take that sort of talk seriously when on the other side of the world we have situations that look a heck of a lot closer to genocide.

As to the pseudoephedrine thing, the answer to that is obvious, that FDA studies proved conclusively that phenylephrine literally doesn't work - it's a placebo.

Agreed that he needs to stand up to Peters and Seymour. If that means we go back to another election, so be it - but we cannot have the countryy being governed by less than a quarter of the vote. That is beyond the pale.

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#3168293 5-Dec-2023 12:07

GV27:

sen8or:

Part of me thinks they are crying foul over something that hasn't actually happened yet (i.e - there is to be a discussion over the terms of the treaty, but not yet anything about what the impact of those discussion are), but equally its likely already firmly entrenched in some minds what they want the outcome to be, discussions be damned, so to sit back and do nothing isn't an option either.

I don't know how many on either side are interested in a discussion in the sense that they are exchanging ideas, moreso they are interested in a monopoly on them and their personally desired outcome.

A pity. There's possibly a great deal to be gained in some sort of actual discussion about the overall constitutional framework of the country and what should feed into it. Something tells me we aren't going to get that.

1840 to 4 December 2023 its worked ok. Im unsure what power the new Government has to alter laws around the Treaty, but it does smack of anti indigenous behaviour. Is the Treaty bad for NZ?

GV27

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#3168299 5-Dec-2023 12:43

tdgeek:

1840 to 4 December 2023 its worked ok.

There seem to be a considerable number of people who seem to think otherwise - on both sides of the House.

We have gone through numerous evolutions of what we understand the actual relevance of the Treaty (or the things that have flowed from it) means. Some of those are at odds with what we would consider core tenants of a modern Western democracy.

I've read enough to know I'm nowhere near informed enough to have a credible opinion, so I'll quote Joe Quimby:

"Are these morons getting dumber or louder?"

"Dumber, Sir."

Just take it and apply to the side you personally disagree with, and then distract everyone by blaming immigrants.

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#3168302 5-Dec-2023 13:00

In my opinion if the Treaty is in effect made void then sovereignty of Aotearoa reverts back to the state prior the treaty. Any discussion must be had with Maori as equal partners with other partner being the Crown.

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#3168310 5-Dec-2023 13:13

MikeB4:

In my opinion if the Treaty is in effect made void then sovereignty of Aotearoa reverts back to the state prior the treaty. Any discussion must be had with Maori as equal partners with other partner being the Crown.

Agreed. And furthermore any referendum on abolishing the Treaty must be operated on the basis of majority agreement from both parties. That is, a majority of Māori roll voters as well as a majority of Pākehā must agree to dissolve it. Not just an overall majority of the population.

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ezbee

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#3168313 5-Dec-2023 13:16

Who knew Don Brashes old stuff from decades past would be divisive?
It's not like we have had this derail things before.

Government's 100-day plan starts with 'laser focus' on cost of living, Luxon says
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/503904/watch-government-s-100-day-plan-starts-with-laser-focus-on-cost-of-living-luxon-says

"" Finance Minister Nicola Willis
She pointed to legislation set to be introduced to the House next week to return the Reserve Bank to a single mandate, removing the requirement to consider effects on employment levels.

"History tells us that the best way to deliver strong, consistent growth in employment is by first delivering low and stable inflation.
""

So you remove supporting employment to support employment?

I'm not sure the Reserve Bank did much on employment specifically and global pandemic was entirely different thing.

Problem is classical method to damp inflation is to tighten bank reserves, reduce lending that leads to higher interest rates.
Companies pull back due to lack of financing and its cost.
Employment market tightens as well theoretically reducing wage demands.
Compounded by consumers(employees) cutting back on consuming as they see their income is unstable and borrowing cost high.
So if you want to 'Go Hard' ?

Much of this predates global open markets, so if much of the world is in inflationary cycle can you isolate yourself?
If the most skilled can, just go somewhere else to get that wage rise?
Your imports of skills also can just see us as 'Sydney for beginners' and move on too?

tdgeek

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#3168318 5-Dec-2023 13:19

GV27:

tdgeek:

1840 to 4 December 2023 its worked ok.

There seem to be a considerable number of people who seem to think otherwise - on both sides of the House.

We have gone through numerous evolutions of what we understand the actual relevance of the Treaty (or the things that have flowed from it) means. Some of those are at odds with what we would consider core tenants of a modern Western democracy.

I've read enough to know I'm nowhere near informed enough to have a credible opinion, so I'll quote Joe Quimby:

"Are these morons getting dumber or louder?"

"Dumber, Sir."

Just take it and apply to the side you personally disagree with, and then distract everyone by blaming immigrants.

Yes it has evolved and evolved and the reparations over time have been and are being dealt with I believe. So, should the Treaty end, then what?

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