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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections
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kingdragonfly
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  #3414671 13-Sep-2025 21:44
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Charlie Kirk

Charlie Kirk

“George Floyd is not a hero. He was a scumbag. He should not be celebrated.”

He also claimed that George Floyd died from a drug overdose / disputing the medical examiner’s findings.

Kirk said that gun deaths are “unfortunately worth it” to preserve the Second Amendment.

Mark Robinson (politician)

After the 2018 Parkland school shooting, Robinson made disparaging remarks about the teenage survivors

"they are spoiled, angry, know it all CHILDREN” and “spoiled little bastards” It was “karma” for abortion, placing blame on gun safety activists.

Trump

After the fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk, Trump said the U.S. needs to “beat the hell out of radical left lunatics”

and many many more

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  #3414683 14-Sep-2025 07:47
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Asteros:

 

This video gave me the impetus to learn more about Charlie Kirk and MAGA. Gavin and Charlie are having a calm, good natured and robust conversation enjoying laughs together about the big issues. 

 

 

This time I'm going to quote an article that was in The Bulwark today about Kirk's assassination, and what he actually stood for: https://www.thebulwark.com/i/173387649/free-speech

 

I would not say that Kirk was practicing politics in exactly the right way when he called last month for the “full military occupation” of American cities with high crime rates until the problem is solved.

 

I wouldn’t say he was doing things exactly the right way when he urged Mike Pence to ignore the electoral votes cast for Joe Biden by swing states in January 2021.

 

Nor would I say he was a model practitioner of politics when he applauded Trump’s pardon of the January 6 thugs earlier this year, describing them as “hostages” and celebrating their release as “bold action to save people from lawfare tyranny.”

 

And I guess I wouldn’t say that he was setting a fine political example when he called for a “patriot” to bail out the man who broke into Nancy Pelosi’s home and beat her elderly husband with a hammer.

 

Charlie Kirk was a prominent face in a postliberal political faction. He wasn’t the most ardent authoritarian in the ranks, and he certainly wasn’t the person of lowest character. But the movement he promoted and with which he aligned himself fundamentally doesn’t believe in doing politics “the right way,” and we should all remain clear about that in our grief. It likes to intimidate its opponents, as it’s doing right now with the show of military force in Washington D.C., and it reacts to losing debates by trying to overturn the results rather than accept them, as it did on Election Day 2020.

 

Kirk went along with it, doubtless realizing that he wouldn’t have remained a bigshot in a postliberal faction for long if he hadn’t. By no means is that to imply that he deserved what he got yesterday, of course, only to stress that sympathy for the victim and fear of what comes shouldn’t stop anyone from acknowledging that the populist right is a movement of civic arsonists led by a pyromaniac. If it’s true, as Trump said last night, that Kirk is “a martyr for truth and freedom,” honor the dead by continuing to exercise your freedom to tell the truth about this sleazy administration’s abiding contempt for practicing politics in the right, i.e., constitutional, way.

 

The bits I've bolded are things that - in my opinion - work against your assessment of him as having "robust conversation[s]" about "the big issues". These things aren't even (or never were) "issues", most of this - as I said before - were caused by Trump and his bold-faced lies rhetoric:

 

Then the pyromaniac in chief chimed in. “For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis,” Trump said in an address to the nation. “This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we’re seeing in our country today, and it must stop right now. My administration will find each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence, including the organizations that fund it and support it, as well as those who go after our judges [and] law enforcement officials.”

 

Repeated from my earlier message - if you really want to "see the temperature come down", I would suggest directing your feelings towards the top of the Republican "food chain".

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  #3414687 14-Sep-2025 09:06
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Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth apparently firing servicemembers related to critical comments about Kirk:

NBCNews: Pete Hegseth tells Pentagon staff to hunt for negative Charlie Kirk posts by service members. Several people have already been relieved of their jobs because of their posts on social media, defense officials told NBC News. One U.S. military officer said troops know they are not allowed to condone political violence, but being fired for criticizing a person, particularly a civilian who has no ties to the military, is extremely rare.

It's unclear if the comments in question are merely critical of Kirk at a time when his legacy is being remembered or somehow went further in some unspecified way.

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  #3414688 14-Sep-2025 09:13
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The NY Times - Trump Escalates Attacks on Political Opponents After Charlie Kirk’s Killing

 

Sept. 13, 2025

 


President Trump and his top advisers are escalating their attacks on their opponents in the wake of Charlie Kirk’s killing, placing the blame for political violence on Democrats alone and signaling a broad crackdown on critics and left-leaning institutions.

 

Mr. Trump blamed the “radical left” almost immediately after Mr. Kirk was shot, before the authorities had identified a suspect. ...

 

Mr. Trump has an expansive view of those he deems radical, applying that term to almost all of his political adversaries.

 

In his second term, Mr. Trump has pushed the boundaries of his authority to exact retribution on political opponents and institutions. ...

 

Critics of the administration now worry that Mr. Kirk’s murder could be used as a pretext to move even more aggressively against those who speak out against Mr. Trump.

 

 

 




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  #3414692 14-Sep-2025 10:00
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quickymart:

And I guess I wouldn’t say that he was setting a fine political example when he called for a “patriot” to bail out the man who broke into Nancy Pelosi’s home and beat her elderly husband with a hammer.


At that time Kirk was intending to amplify some kind of conspiracy theory involving a sexual liason. The idea was a "patriot" should bail out the attacker and ask the attacker what really happened. It's fairly clear Kirk was not condoning the attack.

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  #3414743 14-Sep-2025 10:38
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gzt:At that time Kirk was intending to amplify some kind of conspiracy theory involving a sexual liason. The idea was a "patriot" should bail out the attacker and ask the attacker what really happened. It's fairly clear Kirk was not condoning the attack.


You are correct. Charlie Kirk did not condone the attack. The use of "patriot" is coded language. It wasn’t just a synonym for “random person.” It was a signal to the right-wing, suggesting that aiding the attacker could be considered a patriotic duty.

Also Charlie Kirk did not condone the strangulation murder of George Floyd, by a police officer.

He said George Floyd a “scumbag”, and said Floyd was “unworthy of the attention” his death received.

Kirk has promoted claims about Floyd’s behavior before his death, such as alleged involvement in counterfeiting money, or a claim that he once “put a gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach.” These claims are disputed or debunked.

He suggested Floyd died of a drug overdose rather than primarily due to police actions, which is contrary to the medical examiner’s classification of homicide.

He suggesting the response to Floyd’s death is an overreaction by “the most corrupt and disingenuous voices.”

A great example of using rhetorical and logical fallacies:
  • Ad Hominem: Attacking the Person, Not the Argument: Kirk calling him a “scumbag,” bringing up alleged past crimes

  • Red Herring / Distraction: emphasizing Floyd’s past behavior or drug use, Kirk introduces irrelevant details to distract from the central issue: an officer kneeling on his neck for over 9 minutes.

  • Victim Blaming (a type of Appeal to Faulty Causation): suggests that if someone is flawed, harms against them are less serious or even deserved.

  • Straw Man: “The left treats Floyd like a saint / hero”. Then he knocks that down, instead of addressing the real claim, that his killing was unjust and symptomatic of systemic problems.

  • whataboutism: , “Why are you focusing on Floyd? What about other victims, other crimes, other issues?”

  • Minimization / Appeal to Triviality: Floyd’s death got too much attention or wasn’t “worthy” of it.

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  #3414747 14-Sep-2025 11:10
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That's to show that Kirk was a master debater.

 

Like South Park demonstrated.




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  #3414806 14-Sep-2025 12:26
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Here's some quotes around the right-wing gathering in UK "Unite the Kingdom". It is far-right, anti-immigrant, or nationalist.

So of course Elon Musk made an appearance, at the rally. I'm sure Tesla shareholders won't be happy.

“Our friend Charlie Kirk getting murdered in cold blood this week. People were celebrating it openly. The left is the party of nutters.”

Tommy Robinson

The organiser of Unite the Kingdom is also Founder of the English Defence League (EDL). It is long associated with anti-Muslim rhetoric and violent street protests. He has been repeatedly convicted for assault.

UK government and independent watchdogs have explicitly named Robinson as a dangerous extremist in the past.

“The bastard who has murdered him, or the organisation, the corporation or the government it is that has killed him.”

Turning Point UK, in reaction to statements from Labour Party figures

“Starmer’s crocodile tears over the martyrdom of Charlie Kirk are incredibly offensive,” and “Had Charlie been a British citizen, Two-Tier Keir would have locked him up for his conservative views.”

Another from same organziation, Nick Tenconi

“I say, ladies and gentlemen, Charlie Kirk is a hero. When they try to cancel us, when they try to silence us, when they murder us, they create martyrs, and Charlie is a Christian martyr.”

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  #3414866 14-Sep-2025 14:47
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Facebook / Meta founder Mark Zuckerberg caught on hit microphone with Trump

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  #3414930 14-Sep-2025 16:23
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kingdragonfly: Here's some quotes around the right-wing gathering in UK "Unite the Kingdom". It is far-right, anti-immigrant, or nationalist.

Guess who else..



https://x.com/briantamakinz/status/1966993235248652500?s=61

/Offtopic for this thread..

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  #3414934 14-Sep-2025 16:59
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Disgusting. 

 

It should be in the deplorables thread.




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  #3414937 14-Sep-2025 17:18
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Meanwhile Trump sent the US Navy to find drug smugglers near Venezuela for some reason. Yesterday, inside Venezuela's EEZ the U.S Navy detained a fishing vessel for eight hours presumably finding nothing

AlJazeera: “The warship deployed 18 armed agents who boarded and occupied the small, harmless boat for eight hours,” the statement said, calling the incident a “direct provocation through the illegal use of excessive military means”. The move follows a US military strike last week in the Caribbean that killed 11 Venezuelans and sank a boat that the administration of US President Donald Trump claimed, without evidence, had been transporting narcotics.

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  #3414948 14-Sep-2025 19:51
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gzt:
kingdragonfly: Here's some quotes around the right-wing gathering in UK "Unite the Kingdom". It is far-right, anti-immigrant, or nationalist.

Guess who else..

/Offtopic for this thread..

 

Also offtopic, but what an odd couple those two make. We have a white-supremacist-dropkick, teaming up with an obviously-not white guy, all in the name of...uh...?

 

That Robinson guy must have really suspended his racist beliefs to work alongside someone like Brian Tamaki 🤷‍♂️

kingdragonfly
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  #3414949 14-Sep-2025 19:51
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Trump gave fentanyl, the synthetic opioids., as justification for the US military's presence. However fentanyl is not produced in Venezuela, essentially ~0% of illegal Venezuela drug trade.

The vast majority of illicit fentanyl and its precursor chemicals come from Chinese chemicals and are manufactured by cartels in Mexico.

Venezuela itself is not a large cocaine producer, but it’s over land major transit hub. Colombian cocaine is trafficked through Venezuela. (again not fentanyl)

From Venezuela moves north. The "final mile" into the U.S. typically happens through Mexico - US land border.

Again Venezuela serves as a secondary transit point, not a primary route. Most northbound cocaine travels through Central America and Mexico, not directly from Venezuela to U.S. shores

So yeah, nuking small open boats, overloaded with people, and boarding boats around Venezuela is not going to find much (if any illegal) drugs.

Of course if the US demand for cocaine ceased, the cocaine supply would also stop.

Decades of anti-communism, now anti-socialism, meant the US is still tolerant of corruption if leaders aligned with Washington. This corruption certainly somewhat responsible for the drug trade.

Nicaraguan Contras and cocaine

You'll remember in the 1980's U.S. officials secretly sold arms to Iran despite an embargo. They diverted some proceeds to fund the Nicaraguan Contras, a rebel group fighting the leftist Sandinista government.

This was illegal because Congress had prohibited U.S. funding of the Contras. Some Contra factions and their supporters were involved in cocaine trafficking to raise money.

Certain U.S. officials looked the other way at this activity because the Contras were seen as a strategic ally.

In some cases, drug traffickers who supported the Contras were protected from prosecution or had their activities downplayed.

Oliver North, then Marine Corps Lt. Col., became prominent in the 1980s during the Iran-Contra affair, because he was actively involved, and lied to Congress about his activities.

Because of his disdain for congress and the rule of law, he became a hero to conservatives. In 2018, North was elected President of the NRA.

He has been involved as a commentator, public speaker, and writer, often on Fox News.

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  #3415026 15-Sep-2025 07:32
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When the worst person makes a good point. See Trump loves AI, and the MAGA world is getting worried

In the tweat below, Marjorie Taylor Green is using fear framing: “black holes,” “mass poverty,” “threat to federalism”

She is correct that Data centers do require significant water for cooling, especially in areas where evaporative cooling is used. However few data centers use “literally millions of gallons per day.” She off by a factor of 10. Some Google and Microsoft facilities report closer to hundreds of thousands of gallons per day in peak use, not millions.

What she missed is Trump is heavily pushing for coal plants for electricity, which speeds up climate change.

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene
@RepMTG
I have many concerns about the AI Executive Order signed yesterday by President Trump.

While I understand the many promised benefits of AI, I remain committed to protecting state rights, human jobs, human lives, human rights, our environment and critical water supply.

My deep concerns are that the EO demands rapid AI expansion with little to no guardrails and breaks. It also contains the threat of withholding federal funds from states who regulate AI, which is an absolute threat to federalism and why I strongly opposed the AI state moratorium originally in the BBB.

Rushed AI expansion and data centers being built all over the country from state to state with no plan in regards to environmental and critical water supply impact has massive future implications and problems.

I’ve been in construction my entire life.

I can tell you firsthand, when you move dirt there is always an impact to the surrounding area.

When you build something that requires a HIGH water demand, it will always take water away from others - that means people, cities, businesses, and surrounding counties and states.

Data centers are like a black holes when it comes to water requirements. They consume massive amounts of water for cooling, literally millions of gallons per day.

If you know anything about the water wars between GA, TN, AL, and FLA, then you know states already fight each other over water supply. Counties fight each other over water supply and sue each other over PFAS/PFOS and other impacts.

Just wait and see how bad lawsuits will become when counties are competing for data centers, in order to get rid of county property taxes, and the unintended results is new data centers that steal the water from surrounding homes and neighboring counties and states.

Competing with China does not mean become like China by threatening state rights, replacing human jobs on mass scale creating mass poverty, and creating potentially devastating effects on our environment and critical water supply.

This needs a careful and wise approach. The AI EO takes the opposite.

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