Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3055563 27-Mar-2023 21:09

GV27: Marama Davidson making life difficult for Hipkins.

Showing her true colours.

She has a right to free speech and so does Posie Parker, yet Marama Davidson was quite happy to try and stop that. Pot, kettle black. much.

I, like I suspect most New Zealanders, had never heard of Posie Parker till the LGBQT community tried to have her banned. They did a wonderful job of giving her a platform, now almost everyone will know of her.

From a couple of snippets I heard Posie may have a valid argument around sporting participation and she probably airs concerns others are too afraid to say publically. That said I don't have a lot of time for people like Posie who are evangelistic to extreme in their approach and would rather they didn't grace us with their presence.

I think some of the protestors also fit into the evangelistic to extreme category and for me at least didn't advance their cause one little bit. They were the flip side of the same coin as Posie.

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gzt

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#3055576 27-Mar-2023 22:17

Technofreak: She has a right to free speech and so does Posie Parker, yet Marama Davidson was quite happy to try and stop that. Pot, kettle black. much.

You're a million miles from reality. There's absolutely no comparison. Keen-Minshull aka Posie Parker associates with the extreme right and sees nothing wrong with that. Including in NZ associating with a group formerly known as the National Front a self described Nazi Party. Everyone knows what those people are like and what they have done to people and what they want to do to people.

johno1234

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#3055647 28-Mar-2023 07:06

Who you associate with (that is very vague) has nothing to do with your right to free speech. It is what you say that counts. Minshull does not advocate violence or hate from what I have seen. Davidson talks about love out one side of her mouth while expressing racist misandry out the other.

johno1234

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#3055648 28-Mar-2023 07:09

Rikkitic:
johno1234:

She vaguely sort of half walked out back because she was told to. In between she allegedly doubled down on it. Her excuse about being in shock is ludicrous. She was bouncing along and grinning when she said it.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/middayreport/audio/2018883465/greens-co-leader-on-white-cis-men-comments

Are you just looking for something to feel offended about?

Not looking. It found me.

Are you OK with Davidsons's statement that white cis men cause all violence?

tdgeek

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#3055650 28-Mar-2023 07:28

Kyanar:

While I do get frustrated at the constant need to gender the issue of domestic violence (the responses should be appropriately gender-tailored, the actual issue is an all-of-society one, it just plain shouldn't happen at all), I hardly think her statement rises to the level that she should be expected to resign. Her choice of words on that topic were poorly chosen (especially since as it was a trans rights protest, it didn't need mention at all), but given the circumstances I think we can give that a bit of leeway. Hipkins response was a pretty diplomatic way of saying "I don't agree but..."

I don't agree. White cis men is a calculated choice of words, not a slip out. I have no issues with genuine mistakes, but to me it shows her heavy bias. Hardly what is required when presiding over a family and violence portfolio.

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#3055664 28-Mar-2023 08:25

As reported here. Hipkins: "She had been hit by a motorcycle and she gets a leeway. She has clarified her comments. It is a regrettable situation." "She would almost certainly not been at her best."

Doesn't sound like she suffered a serious head injury. Someone with a head injury could be potentially violent towards those who try to assist and uncharacteristic behaviour should be excused under such circumstances, but Hipkins' 'leeway' is akin to giving someone involved in a minor accident (nothing I have seen suggests any malice) free reign to respond however they wish. Just because you may want to attack the other party, verbally, physically or whatever, that doesn't mean you get a free pass.

Davidson has to go. There is simply no other tenable outcome.

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#3055665 28-Mar-2023 08:31

johno1234: Who you associate with (that is very vague) has nothing to do with your right to free speech. It is what you say that counts. Minshull does not advocate violence or hate from what I have seen.

I'm not suggesting it does. My feeling is, an appearance by Harry Potter author JK Rowling to speak on this topic as Rowling often does would have attracted some token protest, but at nowhere near the same level as the Keen-Minshull bunch. The reason is those ongoing relationships.

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tdgeek

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#3055666 28-Mar-2023 08:32

If she was a Labour Party MP.....

SJB

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#3055670 28-Mar-2023 08:48

I doubt that 99.99% of the NZ population give a rats a**e about the speeches/thoughts/feelings/political leanings etc etc of either side in the weekend demonstrations.

johno1234

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#3055674 28-Mar-2023 08:59

gzt:
johno1234: Who you associate with (that is very vague) has nothing to do with your right to free speech. It is what you say that counts. Minshull does not advocate violence or hate from what I have seen.

I'm not suggesting it does. My feeling is, an appearance by Harry Potter author JK Rowling to speak on this topic as Rowling often does would have attracted some token protest, but at nowhere near the same level as the Keen-Minshull bunch. The reason is those ongoing relationships.

Minshull has certainly attracted some unsavoury types - neo-nazis in Australia and Bishop Brian's mob in NZ. But I haven't seen anything specific and nasty in her messaging to support or attract them. Such people are always on the lookout for something to attach to, in order to attract attention. Stand to be corrected if someone could point out otherwise.

JK Rowling has literally millions of fans and is known world wide. Minshull would remain obscure if it wasn't for the likes of extremist groups bringing her to attention.

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#3055676 28-Mar-2023 09:01

SirHumphreyAppleby:

As reported here. Hipkins: "She had been hit by a motorcycle and she gets a leeway. She has clarified her comments. It is a regrettable situation." "She would almost certainly not been at her best."

Doesn't sound like she suffered a serious head injury. Someone with a head injury could be potentially violent towards those who try to assist and uncharacteristic behaviour should be excused under such circumstances, but Hipkins' 'leeway' is akin to giving someone involved in a minor accident (nothing I have seen suggests any malice) free reign to respond however they wish. Just because you may want to attack the other party, verbally, physically or whatever, that doesn't mean you get a free pass.

Davidson has to go. There is simply no other tenable outcome.

Davidson shows no signs of shock in the video. Quite the opposite - she shows signs of euphoria. Exactly the state that leads to a loss of inhibition where things are felt and said that would normally just be felt.

Rikkitic

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#3055681 28-Mar-2023 09:10

johno1234:

Are you OK with Davidsons's statement that white cis men cause all violence?

(Some) people are very quick to jump on a single utterance by a public figure they already don't like for whatever reason. I prefer to judge people on the basis of their collective statements and actions over a period of time. No I am not okay with your paraphrase of Davidson's comment. I am also not okay with the lynch mob mentality of those who use this kind of thing as an excuse to bring out the knives.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

johno1234

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#3055710 28-Mar-2023 10:08

Rikkitic:

johno1234:

Are you OK with Davidsons's statement that white cis men cause all violence?

(Some) people are very quick to jump on a single utterance by a public figure they already don't like for whatever reason. I prefer to judge people on the basis of their collective statements and actions over a period of time. No I am not okay with your paraphrase of Davidson's comment. I am also not okay with the lynch mob mentality of those who use this kind of thing as an excuse to bring out the knives.

Paraphrase? Here's the exact quote: "I am a prevention violence minister, and I know who causes violence in the world. It is white cis men... who cause violence."

Knives? Lynch mob? The closest I saw to lynch mob I saw was the one that pushed over the barriers, surrounded Minshull and threw stuff over her.

Rikkitic

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#3055757 28-Mar-2023 11:17

Just for the record, I strongly agree with all who condemn any acts of violence as part of a protest action. Pushing Posie or especially chucking tomato juice on her amounts to assault and should be punished where possible. This is not an acceptable way to make a point.

Crowding around her without touching and shouting in her face are also not things I would do, but they certainly got the message across. In my opinion she is a populist bottom feeder who contributes nothing to meaningful debate of women's issues. Of course she has a right to speak. Just as others have a right to shout her down. That is pretty much what happened.

Davison is being jumped on with ferocity for having misspoken once in a heated moment. That is lynch mob mentality and it serves no useful purpose.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3055764 28-Mar-2023 11:56

johno1234: Who you associate with (that is very vague) has nothing to do with your right to free speech. It is what you say that counts. Minshull does not advocate violence or hate from what I have seen. Davidson talks about love out one side of her mouth while expressing racist misandry out the other.

What do you get if you have a Nazi having lunch at a table with 10 other people?

11 Nazis.

(sorry, I can see this has diverted a bit from Chris Hipkins but I wanted to make my point).

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