Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3055770 28-Mar-2023 12:15

quickymart:

johno1234: Who you associate with (that is very vague) has nothing to do with your right to free speech. It is what you say that counts. Minshull does not advocate violence or hate from what I have seen. Davidson talks about love out one side of her mouth while expressing racist misandry out the other.

What do you get if you have a Nazi having lunch at a table with 10 other people?

11 Nazis.

(sorry, I can see this has diverted a bit from Chris Hipkins but I wanted to make my point).

Smearing by association?

Technofreak

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#3055784 28-Mar-2023 12:57

gzt:
Technofreak: She has a right to free speech and so does Posie Parker, yet Marama Davidson was quite happy to try and stop that. Pot, kettle black. much.

You're a million miles from reality. There's absolutely no comparison. Keen-Minshull aka Posie Parker associates with the extreme right and sees nothing wrong with that. Including in NZ associating with a group formerly known as the National Front a self described Nazi Party. Everyone knows what those people are like and what they have done to people and what they want to do to people.

Hmmm, does she associate with them or they associate wither her.

From comments I heard on the radio made by an Aussie commentator speaking about her visit to Australia it seems in Australia at least some of the extreme right people that showed up to "support" Posie have a habit of turning up almost anywhere there's a protest/gathering just get themselves noticed.

Davidson's comments were pretty inflammatory and certainly learning towards far left territory. Certainly not becoming of a Minister of Government and an embarrassment to the PM.

I don't think pot, kettle black is far off the mark. Davidson needs to take the plank out of her eye first.

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sir1963

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#3055786 28-Mar-2023 13:01

Hipkins managed to miss a golden opportunity here with

Prime Minister Chris Hipkins on Monday said violence shouldn't be part of protests.

"I don't believe people should throw things at a protest, whether what they're throwing is a soup or a brick," he told reporters during his post-Cabinet press conference."

A MUCH better response would have been

"I don't believe people should throw things at a protest, whether what they're throwing is a soup or a Dildo"

Paul1977

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#3055796 28-Mar-2023 13:44

Rikkitic:

Just for the record, I strongly agree with all who condemn any acts of violence as part of a protest action. Pushing Posie or especially chucking tomato juice on her amounts to assault and should be punished where possible. This is not an acceptable way to make a point.

Crowding around her without touching and shouting in her face are also not things I would do, but they certainly got the message across. In my opinion she is a populist bottom feeder who contributes nothing to meaningful debate of women's issues. Of course she has a right to speak. Just as others have a right to shout her down. That is pretty much what happened.

Davison is being jumped on with ferocity for having misspoken once in a heated moment. That is lynch mob mentality and it serves no useful purpose.

Davison only 'mispoke' in that she now realizes she shouldn't have said what she did. But what she said was very clear and unambiguous. You can't say that and then expect people to believe you when you say "that wasn't what I meant" or "I mispoke in the heat of the moment". I call bullshit. She said what she believed (or what she thought would be popular), and is now disingenuously backtracking when she got blowback.

johno1234

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#3055815 28-Mar-2023 14:02

Sometimes it takes a poet to express a thought better than I can ...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131620080/the-bullying-hypocrisy-unleashed-over-posie-parker?cx_testId=12&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=2#cxrecs_s

Rikkitic

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#3055816 28-Mar-2023 14:03

Paul1977:

Davison only 'mispoke' in that she now realizes she shouldn't have said what she did. But what she said was very clear and unambiguous. You can't say that and then expect people to believe you when you say "that wasn't what I meant" or "I mispoke in the heat of the moment". I call bullshit. She said what she believed (or what she thought would be popular), and is now disingenuously backtracking when she got blowback.

It's only bullshit if she continues to say it and act on it. Why so quick to believe someone's slip while disregarding everything else in their life that says something different?

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Technofreak

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#3055823 28-Mar-2023 14:23

Rikkitic:

Paul1977:

Davison only 'mispoke' in that she now realizes she shouldn't have said what she did. But what she said was very clear and unambiguous. You can't say that and then expect people to believe you when you say "that wasn't what I meant" or "I mispoke in the heat of the moment". I call bullshit. She said what she believed (or what she thought would be popular), and is now disingenuously backtracking when she got blowback.

It's only bullshit if she continues to say it and act on it. Why so quick to believe someone's slip while disregarding everything else in their life that says something different?

Trouble is what she said wasn't a slip. No one slips up to make a statement like that. That sort of statement takes some sort of premeditation IMO.

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Technofreak

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#3055824 28-Mar-2023 14:26

tdgeek:

If she was a Labour Party MP.....

Based on what happened to Stuart Nash she'd be on the backbench perhaps worse.

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#3055825 28-Mar-2023 14:28

Technofreak:

Based on what happened to Stuart Nash she'd be on the backbench perhaps worse.

Agree. But while she is a Government MP she is the supporting party's person. A bit like Luxon telling Seymour to fire/demote an ACT MP, not great for the partys voters point of view

gzt

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#3055829 28-Mar-2023 14:57

johno1234: Davidson shows no signs of shock in the video. Quite the opposite - she shows signs of euphoria. Exactly the state that leads to a loss of inhibition where things are felt and said that would normally just be felt.

In my experience that is exactly consistent with being involved in an incident like that. You get a massive shot of adrenaline in the system from that. You're very likely to respond unpredictably and suboptimally in situations for the rest of the day.

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#3055830 28-Mar-2023 15:10

Technofreak:

Trouble is what she said wasn't a slip. No one slips up to make a statement like that. That sort of statement takes some sort of premeditation IMO.

And how do you know that, if I may ask? Do you have a list of quotes where she has said the same or something similar? Are you aware she has six children with a Pākehā man of Scottish descent who has been her partner for at least 20 years? She can't hate white cis males all that much!

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Paul1977

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#3055863 28-Mar-2023 15:43

Rikkitic:

And how do you know that, if I may ask? Do you have a list of quotes where she has said the same or something similar? Are you aware she has six children with a Pākehā man of Scottish descent who has been her partner for at least 20 years? She can't hate white cis males all that much!

This sounds a little close to the old trope of "I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black". I'm sure she was talking about the evil patriarchy, whose at it's top sits the diabolical cis white man, rather than any specific individuals. It's all too common for people to make sweeping generalizations, and then make exceptions for the people they personally know. I don't see that being married to a white guy is incompatible with believing that "cis white men" are responsible for all the violence in the world.

My issue isn't with her belief as much as it is with, what appears to be, her blatant dishonesty when trying to walk-back what she said. It wasn't the kind of comment you say accidentally. It was very specific. In my opinion she believes it, or simply thought it would be a popular thing to say; either way she knew what she was saying.

Rikkitic

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#3055875 28-Mar-2023 16:22

Paul1977:

In my opinion she believes it, or simply thought it would be a popular thing to say; either way she knew what she was saying.

In my opinion that is just your opinion, without any substance to back it up. Here is someone else's opinion:

Ministry of Justice data shows the ethnic breakdown of family violence convictions is 56 percent Māori and 35 percent European. When it comes to sexual violence it's 46 percent European and 29 percent Maori.

But family violence advocate Jackie Clark says often Pakeha males don't show up in the stats because they're not reported. From her experience, 95 percent of the women she deals with have been harmed by Pakeha men.

"She [Davidson] said aloud what everybody I know in the family violence field has been saying for a long, long time," Clark said. – Newshub

If you don't know who Jackie Clark is, here is a link.

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Rikkitic

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#3055902 28-Mar-2023 16:42

johno1234:

Sometimes it takes a poet to express a thought better than I can ...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131620080/the-bullying-hypocrisy-unleashed-over-posie-parker?cx_testId=12&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=2#cxrecs_s

He should stick to poetry. His piece is deceptive and manipulative FUD. Chinese and Russian social media operatives would be proud of him.

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Paul1977

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#3055931 28-Mar-2023 18:36

Rikkitic:
In my opinion that is just your opinion, without any substance to back it up. Here is someone else's opinion:

Ministry of Justice data shows the ethnic breakdown of family violence convictions is 56 percent Māori and 35 percent European. When it comes to sexual violence it's 46 percent European and 29 percent Maori.

But family violence advocate Jackie Clark says often Pakeha males don't show up in the stats because they're not reported. From her experience, 95 percent of the women she deals with have been harmed by Pakeha men.

"She [Davidson] said aloud what everybody I know in the family violence field has been saying for a long, long time," Clark said. – Newshub

If you don't know who Jackie Clark is, here is a link.

Absolutely it’s just my opinion. I wouldn’t say it’s without substance though because, you know, she said it.

I’m not sure what the purpose of the quoted stats and anecdotal 95% figure you provided are. No stats change the fact that she said one thing and then said she meant something entirely different when there was blowback.

If you honestly think it plausible that someone can say that “cis white men were the cause of violence” when they really meant “violence happens in all communities” then I don’t know what else to say.

Would you be as eager to give the benefit of the doubt if a cis white man made a similar statement about a different demographic?

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