Moment of Truth?

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testha

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#1138286 26-Sep-2014 14:52

KiwiNZ:

Of course the whole thing is just a conspiracy isn't it, ISIL doesn't exist neither does Al Qaeda. Jesse Ventura is the man to believe... right?

You are putting words in my mouth, I did not claim any of the above. But what I did say are facts. Mass surveillance can be easily circumvented using encrypted communication. The Aussie terror suspect had only a knife. A knife!

Just by speaking out about these facts I am already getting put in the whole conspiracy/left wing attack corner, making it easy for you to dismiss the truth.

2 weeks ago there was no mass surveillance in AUS, since yesterday its legal. 2 weeks is all it takes if we dont watch out.

MikeB4

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#1138287 26-Sep-2014 14:53

testha:
KiwiNZ:

Of course the whole thing is just a conspiracy isn't it, ISIL doesn't exist neither does Al Qaeda. Jesse Ventura is the man to believe... right?

You are putting words in my mouth, I did not claim any of the above. But what I did say are facts. Mass surveillance can be easily circumvented using encrypted communication. The Aussie terror suspect had only a knife. A knife!

Just by speaking out about these facts I am already getting put in the whole conspiracy/left wing attack corner, making it easy for you to dismiss the truth.

2 weeks ago there was no mass surveillance in AUS, since yesterday its legal. 2 weeks is all it takes if we dont watch out.

How many were killed in China just recently with only a knife?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

jeffnz

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#1138297 26-Sep-2014 15:11

DravidDavid:
testha: In case you were thinking that mass surveillance wont happen with a Labour government, both the centre right and the centre left parties in Australia voted it in yesterday: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/consumer-security/terror-laws-clear-senate-enabling-entire-australian-web-to-be-monitored-and-whistleblowers-to-be-jailed-20140925-10m8ih.html

Also interesting, besides this making the news all over the world, no mention of it on NZ mass media (stuff, herald). Only RadioNZ has a small article about it.

Could be a sign of things to come. What's the bet we get hit by a "terrorist attack" to spawn another bill and gain the people's attention and support this time?

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testha

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#1138305 26-Sep-2014 15:25

KiwiNZ:

How many were killed in China just recently with only a knife?

How many people working at WINZ were killed in NZ recently with a gun? Would mass surveillance have stopped the killer? He was publicly known and even giving interviews to the media about his frustration before his attack.

How many police officers were attacked by knifes recently in NZ? Would mass surveillance have stopped the attacker?

There is no 100% security, never will be. Whoever is promising it, is lying. Every society has its issues and crazy people. But I dont hear much talking about these kind of issues. It seems people are ok with these kind of threats. But than an angry 18 year old boy attacks someone with a knife it is somehow different and you are ok with the government cutting down on democratic values.

Why?

MikeB4

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#1138321 26-Sep-2014 15:52

testha:
KiwiNZ:

How many were killed in China just recently with only a knife?

How many people working at WINZ were killed in NZ recently with a gun? Would mass surveillance have stopped the killer? He was publicly known and even giving interviews to the media about his frustration before his attack.

How many police officers were attacked by knifes recently in NZ? Would mass surveillance have stopped the attacker?

There is no 100% security, never will be. Whoever is promising it, is lying. Every society has its issues and crazy people. But I dont hear much talking about these kind of issues. It seems people are ok with these kind of threats. But than an angry 18 year old boy attacks someone with a knife it is somehow different and you are ok with the government cutting down on democratic values.

Why?

I really think you need to start reading some reliable news sources and come to terms with what has changed and is changing in this world.

Surveillance will help protect my future and quite happy and at ease with the actions of our Government.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

driller2000

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#1138446 26-Sep-2014 19:52

KiwiNZ:
testha:
KiwiNZ:

How many were killed in China just recently with only a knife?

How many people working at WINZ were killed in NZ recently with a gun? Would mass surveillance have stopped the killer? He was publicly known and even giving interviews to the media about his frustration before his attack.

How many police officers were attacked by knifes recently in NZ? Would mass surveillance have stopped the attacker?

There is no 100% security, never will be. Whoever is promising it, is lying. Every society has its issues and crazy people. But I dont hear much talking about these kind of issues. It seems people are ok with these kind of threats. But than an angry 18 year old boy attacks someone with a knife it is somehow different and you are ok with the government cutting down on democratic values.

Why?

I really think you need to start reading some reliable news sources and come to terms with what has changed and is changing in this world.

Surveillance will help protect my future and quite happy and at ease with the actions of our Government.

And you are fully entitled to that opinion.

Clearly there are people who do and plan horrible things - and the case in Aus does indeed reinforce how close this is to home - and I am sure that everyone commenting wants them and their ilk stopped.

The thing is under current legislation there are legal methods available to the police and our securirty services to catch them - including targeted surveillance via court order.

What is not legal - is to dragnet ALL of us ALL of the time.

I get it, you would be OK with the dragnet of mass surveillance - I and many others are not.

So lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.

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MikeB4

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#1138449 26-Sep-2014 20:09

driller2000:
KiwiNZ:
testha:
KiwiNZ:

How many were killed in China just recently with only a knife?

How many people working at WINZ were killed in NZ recently with a gun? Would mass surveillance have stopped the killer? He was publicly known and even giving interviews to the media about his frustration before his attack.

How many police officers were attacked by knifes recently in NZ? Would mass surveillance have stopped the attacker?

There is no 100% security, never will be. Whoever is promising it, is lying. Every society has its issues and crazy people. But I dont hear much talking about these kind of issues. It seems people are ok with these kind of threats. But than an angry 18 year old boy attacks someone with a knife it is somehow different and you are ok with the government cutting down on democratic values.

Why?

I really think you need to start reading some reliable news sources and come to terms with what has changed and is changing in this world.

Surveillance will help protect my future and quite happy and at ease with the actions of our Government.

And you are fully entitled to that opinion.

Clearly there are people who do and plan horrible things - and the case in Aus does indeed reinforce how close this is to home - and I am sure that everyone commenting wants them and their ilk stopped.

The thing is under current legislation there are legal methods available to the police and our securirty services to catch them - including targeted surveillance via court order.

What is not legal - is to dragnet ALL of us ALL of the time.

I get it, you would be OK with the dragnet of mass surveillance - I and many others are not.

So lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.

So because you have spoken discussion is finished, so to fulfill you wish I will email Forum staff to close this thread.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

jeffnz

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#1138460 26-Sep-2014 20:21

thats fine they can legally target those they know about, what of the ones they don't isn't that the point of mass surveillance to find those you don't know about.

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driller2000

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#1138462 26-Sep-2014 20:30

KiwiNZ:
driller2000:
KiwiNZ:
testha:
KiwiNZ:

How many were killed in China just recently with only a knife?

How many people working at WINZ were killed in NZ recently with a gun? Would mass surveillance have stopped the killer? He was publicly known and even giving interviews to the media about his frustration before his attack.

How many police officers were attacked by knifes recently in NZ? Would mass surveillance have stopped the attacker?

There is no 100% security, never will be. Whoever is promising it, is lying. Every society has its issues and crazy people. But I dont hear much talking about these kind of issues. It seems people are ok with these kind of threats. But than an angry 18 year old boy attacks someone with a knife it is somehow different and you are ok with the government cutting down on democratic values.

Why?

I really think you need to start reading some reliable news sources and come to terms with what has changed and is changing in this world.

Surveillance will help protect my future and quite happy and at ease with the actions of our Government.

And you are fully entitled to that opinion.

Clearly there are people who do and plan horrible things - and the case in Aus does indeed reinforce how close this is to home - and I am sure that everyone commenting wants them and their ilk stopped.

The thing is under current legislation there are legal methods available to the police and our securirty services to catch them - including targeted surveillance via court order.

What is not legal - is to dragnet ALL of us ALL of the time.

I get it, you would be OK with the dragnet of mass surveillance - I and many others are not.

So lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.

So because you have spoken discussion is finished, so to fulfill you wish I will email Forum staff to close this thread.

Nope not at all - but cheers for the aggressive take on that....rather, when people disagree so fundamentally - continued discussion between said individuals is pointless.....so i am checking out - but you feel free to carry on....

BarTender

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#1138522 26-Sep-2014 22:11

driller2000:
KiwiNZ:
driller2000:
KiwiNZ:
testha:
KiwiNZ:

How many were killed in China just recently with only a knife?

How many people working at WINZ were killed in NZ recently with a gun? Would mass surveillance have stopped the killer? He was publicly known and even giving interviews to the media about his frustration before his attack.

How many police officers were attacked by knifes recently in NZ? Would mass surveillance have stopped the attacker?

There is no 100% security, never will be. Whoever is promising it, is lying. Every society has its issues and crazy people. But I dont hear much talking about these kind of issues. It seems people are ok with these kind of threats. But than an angry 18 year old boy attacks someone with a knife it is somehow different and you are ok with the government cutting down on democratic values.

Why?

I really think you need to start reading some reliable news sources and come to terms with what has changed and is changing in this world.

Surveillance will help protect my future and quite happy and at ease with the actions of our Government.

And you are fully entitled to that opinion.

Clearly there are people who do and plan horrible things - and the case in Aus does indeed reinforce how close this is to home - and I am sure that everyone commenting wants them and their ilk stopped.

The thing is under current legislation there are legal methods available to the police and our securirty services to catch them - including targeted surveillance via court order.

What is not legal - is to dragnet ALL of us ALL of the time.

I get it, you would be OK with the dragnet of mass surveillance - I and many others are not.

So lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.

So because you have spoken discussion is finished, so to fulfill you wish I will email Forum staff to close this thread.

Nope not at all - but cheers for the aggressive take on that....rather, when people disagree so fundamentally - continued discussion between said individuals is pointless.....so i am checking out - but you feel free to carry on....

Me I am personally looking forward to the thought police and being RFID tagged so every single movement I have will be logged and tracked. At least I will be free from the tyranny of terrorism right ??

The funny thing is that neither greenwald or snowden ever said any of this was related to terrorism. Yet the "nothing to hide" crowd bring it up again and again when the the overwhelming evidence points to the opposite.

The thing I find most disturbing is people in the technology industry find it acceptable.

So much evidence on why it's wrong. Chilling effect, lack of responsibility and accountability from our government.

Let's all just plug into the matrix and pretend it is all fine. As I have nothing to hide thus nothing to fear. What a rubbish attitude to have. Our forefathers who fought for our freedom would be gravely disappointed if they fully understood what was happening.

Gotta keep blowing that dog whistle in case someone starts listening.

JimmyC

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#1143269 29-Sep-2014 09:16

BarTender:

The thing I find most disturbing is people in the technology industry find it acceptable.

Perhaps because I accept it's now part of life. My work email is journalled in its entirety and archived, permanently. My personal email is GMail based so basically the same thing but worse. Work internet usage is logged and monitored and I have no idea about my home internet connection. In reality there would probably be at least one conversation per month I choose not to email, phone or txt the intended recipient about, choosing only to talk face to face with the intended recipient. C'est la vie.

Apologies to the forefathers...

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networkn

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#1146483 3-Oct-2014 11:55

testha:
Geektastic:
What is it with people refusing to believe that terrorist attacks are real?

Putting quotes around it suggests you do not think it is real, which is frankly ludicrous.

As one who has been within earshot of an IRA bombing, I can assure you terrorists are quite real and they WILL arrive in NZ sooner or later. The thing is, Muslims are everywhere and the crazy ones don't care if you are a NZ citizen - you are an infidel westerner and that is all that matters. The harder it becomes for them to operate in other countries, the more they will gravitate to ones with less secure environments.

Like that really crazy teenage terrorist that had a knife(!) and was known by the AUS police? That angry teenage boy the Aussie police knew about and still voluntary met up with? That than attacked these two police officers with a knife and got shot? In the whole raid, no bombs were found, no other wepons besides knifes.

TERROR! FEAR! NEW LAWS!

As I said before you can use encryption to circumvent the surveillance so these new laws dont do anything to reduce the risk of real terrorists. The question should be why was it pushed through anyways?

Oh so it's the polices fault that they got stabbed by this kid? If they had tasered him on sight the news would be screaming police brutality and crimes against humanity.

He approached them in a conciliatory and non threatening manner.

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