Who should I vote for?

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Awrrr
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#1833266 29-Jul-2017 09:52

Geektastic:

Very true. Indeed, the concept of the floating voter is alien to me. I'll happily cast all my votes in every election for my whole life tomorrow.

I guess the thing about being a fossil is that you are set in stone. Nothing ever changes, right?

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Rikkitic

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#1833268 29-Jul-2017 09:59

I still haven't decided which way to go and I won't for awhile yet, but at the moment two trends are emerging in me. As much as I instinctively dislike Gareth Morgan, and especially his war on cats, I am tempted to vote for TOP just to shake things up a little. If he actually got into Parliament I think it would give the political establishment a much-needed prod in the backside.

At the same time, the Greens may need my vote more than ever. I'm not sure they deserve it, but they play an important role in keeping other parties honest and I would hate to see them lose their influence.

I will cast some bones and ask my tea leaves for guidance.

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SJB

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#1833275 29-Jul-2017 10:22

Rikkitic:

As much as I instinctively dislike Gareth Morgan, and especially his war on cats, I am tempted to vote for TOP just to shake things up a little. If he actually got into Parliament I think it would give the political establishment a much-needed prod in the backside.

Change a name or two there and isn't that how Trump got elected?

Geektastic

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#1833302 29-Jul-2017 11:09

Rikkitic:

Geektastic:

Very true. Indeed, the concept of the floating voter is alien to me. I'll happily cast all my votes in every election for my whole life tomorrow.

I guess the thing about being a fossil is that you are set in stone. Nothing ever changes, right?

Nothing much worth mentioning, no.

Rikkitic

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#1833303 29-Jul-2017 11:13

SJB:

Change a name or two there and isn't that how Trump got elected?

I did think about that and it is a concern but NZ isn't the USA and anyway, we already have Winnie.

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Geektastic

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#1833305 29-Jul-2017 11:14

Having been told by the internet I needed to vote ACT, I thought I would go and look at their policies.

To be honest, not much there to differentiate them from National really.

I would not vote for them anyway, as they are too small to be relevant but I can't really see anything particularly controversial in their policies.

Linuxluver

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#1833796 30-Jul-2017 15:47

Rikkitic:

I am a floating voter, not tied to any party or ideology. In spite of this, I can usually decide where to place my party vote by the time an election arrives. But this time I have no idea. I know who will receive my electorate vote. That is an easy choice. But I may have to leave the other box empty. I truly have no idea.

So who should I vote for? I am open to all suggestions. I will honestly strive to seriously consider any serious proposal, whether from the right or left. Tell me which party will make best use of my vote, and why. If this thread goes anywhere I will announce my decision before the election, also with my reason.

I do not want to start a political debate. There are plenty of other places for that. I am not asking to be told why a particular political choice is a bad idea. Instead, I am hoping to hear what people think is good about different parties. Let’s try to keep it positive. There are reasons why people vote the way they do, and I’m sure some of them are good. That is what I would like to hear.

Greens.

Looking to the future in every area: transport, agriculture, industry, energy......with policies that will create loads of local jobs thruogh moving to renewable energy and at the same time reduce our dependence on foreign energy. The Greens are aware of the likely consequences of technology changes already underway...... The Greens know the neo-liberal economic paradigm has been harmful and any prosperity generated has been to the benefit of the few...and at the cost of the many.

No one else makes an sense.

National has been racking up debt and gutting public services for a decade. They talk about climate change but do as close to nothing as to be almost indistinguishable. They think tax cuts will grow the economy - the fraudulent and disproven theory of the lamentable Arthur Laffer. Right wing parties still haven't worked out Laffer was completely wrong. Everywhere that has tried this approach has ended up worse off....not better. National have not a single clue about what to do when automation leaves large number unemployed. I suppose it will be their fault. That's National's usual approach to anyone needing help. I can never vote for them.

Labour have good values, but their policies seem to come from the bleeding heart column in Women's Weekly. No vision. They are, at least, aware of the impact of technology on working people. But Labour still thing the neo-liberal paradigm is the way to go. They kind of know it isn't, really.....but don't really know what else to do.

ACT is the cancerous tumour at the heart of the neo-liberal fraud. Cut it out.

United Future is ACT with soft pillows. Get rid of Peter Dunne.

TOP would make sense if they were taking votes off National. But they aren't. TOP's whole approach requires voters to be curious, informed and rational with regard to evaluating ALL the evidence and making good decisions. That's about as far from a National voter as you're likely to get.

Vote Green. They were right about climate change 20 years ago.....when it comes to actual REALITY.....the Greens are mainstream and the rest of them are in Yesteryear la-la-land.....though to be fair, so are most voters.

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Linuxluver

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#1833797 30-Jul-2017 15:51

Geektastic:

Having been told by the internet I needed to vote ACT, I thought I would go and look at their policies.

To be honest, not much there to differentiate them from National really.

I would not vote for them anyway, as they are too small to be relevant but I can't really see anything particularly controversial in their policies.

ACT's policies don't work. That's the #FAIL for me right there.

Neo-liberalism was a greedy grab by the 1%....who preached market forces then rigged the market. Got some upward wage pressure due to skill shortages? Do you increase wages as market forces would indicate? No....you tip the table in your favour by importing cheap workers. Yeah...vote for that. G'won.

That's ACT.

Hopeless.

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tdgeek

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#1833870 30-Jul-2017 19:32

Linuxluver:

Rikkitic:

I am a floating voter, not tied to any party or ideology. In spite of this, I can usually decide where to place my party vote by the time an election arrives. But this time I have no idea. I know who will receive my electorate vote. That is an easy choice. But I may have to leave the other box empty. I truly have no idea.

So who should I vote for? I am open to all suggestions. I will honestly strive to seriously consider any serious proposal, whether from the right or left. Tell me which party will make best use of my vote, and why. If this thread goes anywhere I will announce my decision before the election, also with my reason.

I do not want to start a political debate. There are plenty of other places for that. I am not asking to be told why a particular political choice is a bad idea. Instead, I am hoping to hear what people think is good about different parties. Let’s try to keep it positive. There are reasons why people vote the way they do, and I’m sure some of them are good. That is what I would like to hear.

Greens.

Looking to the future in every area: transport, agriculture, industry, energy......with policies that will create loads of local jobs thruogh moving to renewable energy and at the same time reduce our dependence on foreign energy. The Greens are aware of the likely consequences of technology changes already underway...... The Greens know the neo-liberal economic paradigm has been harmful and any prosperity generated has been to the benefit of the few...and at the cost of the many.

No one else makes an sense.

National has been racking up debt and gutting public services for a decade. They talk about climate change but do as close to nothing as to be almost indistinguishable. They think tax cuts will grow the economy - the fraudulent and disproven theory of the lamentable Arthur Laffer. Right wing parties still haven't worked out Laffer was completely wrong. Everywhere that has tried this approach has ended up worse off....not better. National have not a single clue about what to do when automation leaves large number unemployed. I suppose it will be their fault. That's National's usual approach to anyone needing help. I can never vote for them.

Labour have good values, but their policies seem to come from the bleeding heart column in Women's Weekly. No vision. They are, at least, aware of the impact of technology on working people. But Labour still thing the neo-liberal paradigm is the way to go. They kind of know it isn't, really.....but don't really know what else to do.

ACT is the cancerous tumour at the heart of the neo-liberal fraud. Cut it out.

United Future is ACT with soft pillows. Get rid of Peter Dunne.

TOP would make sense if they were taking votes off National. But they aren't. TOP's whole approach requires voters to be curious, informed and rational with regard to evaluating ALL the evidence and making good decisions. That's about as far from a National voter as you're likely to get.

Vote Green. They were right about climate change 20 years ago.....when it comes to actual REALITY.....the Greens are mainstream and the rest of them are in Yesteryear la-la-land.....though to be fair, so are most voters.

Yes.

If you looked at the current Govt and Labour previously, and listed the good and the bad, the vast majority of both are out of our influence, we are too small and global is the wave we ride on. A party needs to focus on NZ, what can be done. Clean Green NZ is a fallacy. We need to get that back, be 100% renewable, be the early adopters we have been in tech, but in green tech. Its cold tonight in ChCh, I assume Genesis is running its coal generation. If we were green, we would not need to. Despite being a drop in a bucket we can make a name for ourselves. Or we could praise the Govt of the day for the low interest rates, good milk, beef, lamb and wool prices. Its what the Govt did, not. The tell us they did a good job. No, thats the global pricing. Or we can criticise them when all those factors are poor, thats also not their fault. They make excuses, which are in fact correct. So, do what we can for Kiwis. Housing, Green, get that money back in the economy.

Geektastic

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#1833933 30-Jul-2017 21:11

Linuxluver:

Geektastic:

Having been told by the internet I needed to vote ACT, I thought I would go and look at their policies.

To be honest, not much there to differentiate them from National really.

I would not vote for them anyway, as they are too small to be relevant but I can't really see anything particularly controversial in their policies.

ACT's policies don't work. That's the #FAIL for me right there.

Neo-liberalism was a greedy grab by the 1%....who preached market forces then rigged the market. Got some upward wage pressure due to skill shortages? Do you increase wages as market forces would indicate? No....you tip the table in your favour by importing cheap workers. Yeah...vote for that. G'won.

That's ACT.

Hopeless.

If you intend to be in the 1% that wouldn't be so mad.

In your illustration, market forces would indicate that you find the cheapest available source of labour commensurate with the ability to produce what you want. Their nationality would be irrelevant.

JayADee

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#1834015 31-Jul-2017 07:36

Linuxluver:
Rikkitic:

I am a floating voter, not tied to any party or ideology. In spite of this, I can usually decide where to place my party vote by the time an election arrives. But this time I have no idea. I know who will receive my electorate vote. That is an easy choice. But I may have to leave the other box empty. I truly have no idea.

So who should I vote for? I am open to all suggestions. I will honestly strive to seriously consider any serious proposal, whether from the right or left. Tell me which party will make best use of my vote, and why. If this thread goes anywhere I will announce my decision before the election, also with my reason.

I do not want to start a political debate. There are plenty of other places for that. I am not asking to be told why a particular political choice is a bad idea. Instead, I am hoping to hear what people think is good about different parties. Let’s try to keep it positive. There are reasons why people vote the way they do, and I’m sure some of them are good. That is what I would like to hear.

Greens.

Looking to the future in every area: transport, agriculture, industry, energy......with policies that will create loads of local jobs thruogh moving to renewable energy and at the same time reduce our dependence on foreign energy. The Greens are aware of the likely consequences of technology changes already underway...... The Greens know the neo-liberal economic paradigm has been harmful and any prosperity generated has been to the benefit of the few...and at the cost of the many.

No one else makes an sense.

National has been racking up debt and gutting public services for a decade. They talk about climate change but do as close to nothing as to be almost indistinguishable. They think tax cuts will grow the economy - the fraudulent and disproven theory of the lamentable Arthur Laffer. Right wing parties still haven't worked out Laffer was completely wrong. Everywhere that has tried this approach has ended up worse off....not better. National have not a single clue about what to do when automation leaves large number unemployed. I suppose it will be their fault. That's National's usual approach to anyone needing help. I can never vote for them.

Labour have good values, but their policies seem to come from the bleeding heart column in Women's Weekly. No vision. They are, at least, aware of the impact of technology on working people. But Labour still thing the neo-liberal paradigm is the way to go. They kind of know it isn't, really.....but don't really know what else to do.

ACT is the cancerous tumour at the heart of the neo-liberal fraud. Cut it out.

United Future is ACT with soft pillows. Get rid of Peter Dunne.

TOP would make sense if they were taking votes off National. But they aren't. TOP's whole approach requires voters to be curious, informed and rational with regard to evaluating ALL the evidence and making good decisions. That's about as far from a National voter as you're likely to get.

Vote Green. They were right about climate change 20 years ago.....when it comes to actual REALITY.....the Greens are mainstream and the rest of them are in Yesteryear la-la-land.....though to be fair, so are most voters.

That's a good pitch. Think TOP will split the vote up?

darylblake

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#1834020 31-Jul-2017 08:17

With our political system in my opinion

1) we are over represented per population we need less MPs
2) we need longer terms (5 years) or else progress is just a joke
3) I get the feeling most party's mainly the smaller ones have some very poorly constructed policies. For example some policies that the party feels strongly about are pushed as an agenda, but when asked about a different issue sometimes these are non existent.
4) there is far too much fat in the public system, and it's achievements are not good enough.

People seem to think throwing funds at a problem fixes it. But that is simply not the case. Funding is a component.

Look at why fletcher building is having problems? It can afford to hire people, it has projects and work coming out its ears. But it's falling apart because it cannot get (and adequately manage) good quality Human Resources. I see the same problems with councils and government but a lot of the failures are plastered up with more money.

Fred99

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#1834038 31-Jul-2017 08:57

darylblake:

Look at why fletcher building is having problems? It can afford to hire people, it has projects and work coming out its ears. But it's falling apart because it cannot get (and adequately manage) good quality Human Resources. I see the same problems with councils and government but a lot of the failures are plastered up with more money.

IMO Fletcher Building problems relate to one major project they're working on that's gone so far over budget it's a colossal money pit. I suspect that they knew it would be from day one, but as a govt. project expected to be bailed out on cost overruns. That was a strategic mistake from the very top, regardless of the "quality" (or lack of) decisions made bystaff at lower levels.

darylblake

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#1834074 31-Jul-2017 09:29

Trying to get good staff to do anything is a massive challenge at the moment. Its the people that do the "Grunt Work" which are hard to find.

I have been doing a building project that started last April. Its nearly complete now, but there have been so many problems with sub-contractors... People just don't want to do the work. Mainly because they have a "Choice". Which means for the "Skilled" people there is plenty of work. However they end up charging more because they are in high demand. And I listen to some of these employers ring up saying they cant get people.

To many people its cheaper and easier to do nothing all day, play xbox or playstation. Hell there are so many youths coming out of school, who just seem pretty happy to have a "gap" year, that turns into something long term. And its embarrassing for them to go to WINZ. There is a massive attitude problem. I would be more than happy to help people into jobs that have the right attitude.

I believe the problem is these people are being fed basic needs, possibly by the state and are not inspired to do anything big with their lives. I believe many of these people are capable, creative and could contribute to society, but they may lack some ambition to do so. This is what needs to be addressed.

So Gareth Morgan may be onto something, where he is pointing out a big problem in our society be he is way to BAT S**T crazy to do something about it properly. For example his $200/week allowance is to buy votes. It will probably be spent on Drugs/Alcohol/Playstation games, if there is no caveat. (There is no way to measure this if we give them cash). His policy is half way there. If it were like a SMART goal. (Specific, measurable etc) it would have more merit in my opinion. There is NO WAY I can vote for TOP because of this reason. But there are some policies in that party that are not that bad. If however, this was an allowance that was a bonus you were paid on top of your apprenticeship, or perhaps a discount/allowance off your UNI fees, we might actually be getting somewhere. Like a kickback that you earn at the end of each year... and it can come off your student loan or something. Incentives work.

I put it down to a problem with things like instant self satisfaction. Technology such as Facebook/Smartphones etc have had a big role to play in creating this attitude. These young people do not stick at something because when the going gets tough its easy to give up. Its not everyone, there are still great young people out there...

I worked with a guy who was a software developer earning decent money, a reasonably high skill level required, and he said it was easier for him to get a housing allowance, for him and his kid and benefit and do some freelancing projects for a bit of cash from home. (Which is illegal I know, but tbh he didn't care).

Also we need to train more doctors, and stop spending time and money on enquiries, its a joke, inquiry here, inquiry there. Our health system is in crisis action is needed.

Rikkitic

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#1834476 31-Jul-2017 17:47

Here is an interesting piece on the Labour implosion. I am not a Labour voter, never have been, now never will be but I am angry at them for not doing their job. The job of a loyal opposition is not just to oppose, but to offer a credible alternative to the governing parties. Instead of focusing on the serious business of being a credible opposition, Labour has spent years dicking around with itself and letting down all the voters who were counting on it to offer a better way. They fully deserve to die, and the sooner the better. I said I would remain open to all suggestions for my vote, but I am now crossing Labour off the list. They need to hand the reins to a real political party and quit wasting people's time.

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