Peter Dunne leaving politics

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Rikkitic

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#1850360 22-Aug-2017 14:04

Wiggum:

Maybe you just buy into too much fake news. You can't believe everything you read in the news or online these days. Some of our news sites like stuff.co.nz, can certainly deceive. I don't think its a conspiracy, its just uninformed/and sometimes biased reporters not doing enough homework, and not basing their news on real facts. Writing news to get clicks.

Not sure what you consider to be fake news but I try to get my information from multiple sources since I know perfectly well how 'facts' can be adjusted to serve a particular bias. Apart from that, I actually never read Stuff except very rarely when following a link from here. I never check the site, though. I also rarely read the Herald, except for some local news because our only local paper belongs to them. My main NZ sources are Radio NZ, the graffiti formerly known as TV Three, TV One, Newsroom, News Collective, The Spinoff, and a few blogs and other sources.

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networkn

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#1850361 22-Aug-2017 14:06

Rikkitic:

Wiggum:

Maybe you just buy into too much fake news. You can't believe everything you read in the news or online these days. Some of our news sites like stuff.co.nz, can certainly deceive. I don't think its a conspiracy, its just uninformed/and sometimes biased reporters not doing enough homework, and not basing their news on real facts. Writing news to get clicks.

Not sure what you consider to be fake news but I try to get my information from multiple sources since I know perfectly well how 'facts' can be adjusted to serve a particular bias. Apart from that, I actually never read Stuff except very rarely when following a link from here. I never check the site, though. I also rarely read the Herald, except for some local news because our only local paper belongs to them. My main NZ sources are Radio NZ, the graffiti formerly known as TV Three, TV One, Newsroom, News Collective, The Spinoff, and a few blogs and other sources.

It's interesting you use those sources, I use similar sources and would say I'm struggling to recall a strong bent toward criticism of Dunne. Not everyone supports his policies (Who has that priviledge in todays society?), but I don't recall anything much supporting your strong views that he is a waste of space.

Rikkitic

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#1850363 22-Aug-2017 14:11

networkn:

Well, I think you have been called out for making assertions without evidence a few times as well.

I often make assertions and they often get me into trouble but I usually either back them up with evidence in the form of authoritative quotes, or I qualify them as opinion. No doubt I have also been guilty of putting words into the mouths of others that don't belong there, but I honestly do try not to unless I am aiming for satirical effect which then is hopefully clear from the context.

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mrfte

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#1850364 22-Aug-2017 14:13

Only main criticism I can recall about the man was his initial anti-weed stance which created a flutter.. otherwise he rarely makes it to any news. And the usual vocal minority criticizing him on forums for being a career politician with no evidence to show that he was a bad one at that.

Wiggum

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#1850391 22-Aug-2017 14:37

Rikkitic:

Wiggum:

Metiria Turei is a fine example, and you thought she was great! That boggles my mind.

If you can point me to any comment of mine in which I stated or implied that I thought Metiria Turei was 'great', I will apologise and withdraw from this discussion.

Forget that. I am not going to trawl through all of your past posts. You have made it very clear as to how you dont believe she has done anything wrong etc etc..

Back on the subject of Dune, I will quote this one that has stuck with me:

Rikkitic: I am not a fan of National but my real interest here is in seeing Dunne sent to pasture. I hate his brand of politicians for life. His one-man party is just a rort of the system to insure permanent perks as a forever Minister. His avarice disgusts me. If he was just an MP serving his constituency it wouldn't be so bad.

Looks like you got your wish. Congratulations. But not a hair out of place on Metiria's head.

Wiggum

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#1850393 22-Aug-2017 14:42

Rikkitic:

Wiggum:

Maybe you just buy into too much fake news. You can't believe everything you read in the news or online these days. Some of our news sites like stuff.co.nz, can certainly deceive. I don't think its a conspiracy, its just uninformed/and sometimes biased reporters not doing enough homework, and not basing their news on real facts. Writing news to get clicks.

Not sure what you consider to be fake news but I try to get my information from multiple sources since I know perfectly well how 'facts' can be adjusted to serve a particular bias. Apart from that, I actually never read Stuff except very rarely when following a link from here. I never check the site, though. I also rarely read the Herald, except for some local news because our only local paper belongs to them. My main NZ sources are Radio NZ, the graffiti formerly known as TV Three, TV One, Newsroom, News Collective, The Spinoff, and a few blogs and other sources.

Care to share some interesting links then about Dune the rebel?

I'm keen to do some reading on the subject. Seems I have been missing out.

Dell

Shop now for Dell laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

MikeB4

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#1850394 22-Aug-2017 14:45

Everyone has a view on things and are entitled to their view, can we pleeeeeaaaaaaassssseeeee discuss this and other issues leading up to September 23 with respect and courtesy to others.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#1850398 22-Aug-2017 14:54

Not sure why, but I will try one final time to explain my antipathy towards Dunne. This really is the last time, though.

It is not connected to his historical performance as an MP or party leader. I don't dispute that he has done worthwhile things in the past, especially for his electorate. I don’t have a problem with that. My objection has more to do with recent years.

People want to give him credit for an ‘enlightened’ drugs policy, but I mainly credit him with being primarily responsible for the synthetic cannabis fiasco, which has become a cascading disaster. People have died as a result of this. There are also other things, but this is the worst one. Other than that, he has made little difference to National policy in this area during his years as a Minister, so what purpose has he served?

As a principle I also don’t care much for politicians who make a life-long career out of being a politician. 30+ years is too long. Maybe 10 years is too long. There could be a debate about that but I think there should be a term limit of some kind. Yes, we may lose the expertise of a few good ones, though it’s not like they die when they leave Parliament. We would also lose a lot of dead wood. On balance, I think terms limits do more good then harm.

My main objection to him is maintaining the United Future fiction for so long. Regardless of its beginnings, that party has not had any meaningful support for years. When the electoral commission deregistered it, Dunne had to scramble to muster 500 of his mates to get his $100,000 of party leader funding back. This is a political party in name only, and has been for several years. I can see no point in keeping it going, other than to provide Dunne with the perks of being a party leader. This does not speak highly of his integrity to me. I would have no problem with him as an independent electorate MP, but his one-man political party is just an abuse of the system as far as I can see. It keeps National in government and it keeps him in a limousine at taxpayer expense. This offends me.

There are other things that have come up over the years but these are my main objections to him. He may have been a fine electorate MP. I am willing to concede that. But he could have been a fine National or independent electorate MP. The rest was just ripping off the system and that is why I don’t like him. I can’t explain my feelings better than this and I won’t try again. You don’t have to agree, but at least understand that this is my take on things and it is why I feel as I do.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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#1850402 22-Aug-2017 15:01

Wiggum:

Rikkitic:

If you can point me to any comment of mine in which I stated or implied that I thought Metiria Turei was 'great', I will apologise and withdraw from this discussion.

Forget that. I am not going to trawl through all of your past posts. You have made it very clear as to how you dont believe she has done anything wrong etc etc..

Again, you are making things up that you can't substantiate to suit your agenda. This is the worst kind of fake argument. Like others have done in other threads, I am going to quit engaging with you. There is no sensible purpose to be served by discussing with you. Others, like networkn, are another matter. He vehemently disagrees with me, but at least he makes intelligent arguments.

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mrfte

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#1850409 22-Aug-2017 15:16

Rikkitic:

Not sure why, but I will try one final time to explain my antipathy towards Dunne. This really is the last time, though.

It is not connected to his historical performance as an MP or party leader. I don't dispute that he has done worthwhile things in the past, especially for his electorate. I don’t have a problem with that. My objection has more to do with recent years.

People want to give him credit for an ‘enlightened’ drugs policy, but I mainly credit him with being primarily responsible for the synthetic cannabis fiasco, which has become a cascading disaster. People have died as a result of this. There are also other things, but this is the worst one. Other than that, he has made little difference to National policy in this area during his years as a Minister, so what purpose has he served?

As a principle I also don’t care much for politicians who make a life-long career out of being a politician. 30+ years is too long. Maybe 10 years is too long. There could be a debate about that but I think there should be a term limit of some kind. Yes, we may lose the expertise of a few good ones, though it’s not like they die when they leave Parliament. We would also lose a lot of dead wood. On balance, I think terms limits do more good then harm.

My main objection to him is maintaining the United Future fiction for so long. Regardless of its beginnings, that party has not had any meaningful support for years. When the electoral commission deregistered it, Dunne had to scramble to muster 500 of his mates to get his $100,000 of party leader funding back. This is a political party in name only, and has been for several years. I can see no point in keeping it going, other than to provide Dunne with the perks of being a party leader. This does not speak highly of his integrity to me. I would have no problem with him as an independent electorate MP, but his one-man political party is just an abuse of the system as far as I can see. It keeps National in government and it keeps him in a limousine at taxpayer expense. This offends me.

There are other things that have come up over the years but these are my main objections to him. He may have been a fine electorate MP. I am willing to concede that. But he could have been a fine National or independent electorate MP. The rest was just ripping off the system and that is why I don’t like him. I can’t explain my feelings better than this and I won’t try again. You don’t have to agree, but at least understand that this is my take on things and it is why I feel as I do.

The achievements quoted in Wikipedia, which I re-quoted here earlier, are very notable I reckon. No politician will ever be able to fit into a perfect image of what they should be according to different opinions.. In Dunne's case, 33 years is a long time for someone to stay in the public eye, tackle criticism every single day, write books and also bring about national policy changes so we have to give credit where due.

Wiggum

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#1850413 22-Aug-2017 15:21

Rikkitic:

Again, you are making things up that you can't substantiate to suit your agenda. This is the worst kind of fake argument. Like others have done in other threads, I am going to quit engaging with you. There is no sensible purpose to be served by discussing with you. Others, like networkn, are another matter. He vehemently disagrees with me, but at least he makes intelligent arguments.

You have just posted your opinion on PD and your "agenda" with him, nothing to backup a considerable amount of claims either. A fake argument IMO, all mostly made up. If I am guilty of making a fake argument, so are you mate.

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