Tens of thousands sign petition to strip Sir Bob Jones of his knighthood

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Forums › Politics › Tens of thousands sign petition to strip Sir Bob Jones of his knighthood

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Geektastic

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#1955796 12-Feb-2018 15:16

Rikkitic:

I just re-read the full text of Jones' comments and I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about. I didn't happen to find the piece funny or clever (unlike some other things he has done) but I don't see how it is racist, either. It is pure satire, turning something around to provoke a response. The idea of having Maori wait on (presumably) white people does evoke an uncomfortable suggestion of slavery in America. I think it is tasteless but not something to be taken seriously. Everyone is entitled to respond to this in whatever manner they deem appropriate, but I still don't have a huge problem with it. He is just an old fart spouting off. Lots of those in the world.

It's a rare day indeed - I find myself entirely in agreement with @Rikkitic! Hold the presses!

Rikkitic

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#1955815 12-Feb-2018 15:53

Geektastic:

It's a rare day indeed - I find myself entirely in agreement with @Rikkitic! Hold the presses!

I find that alarming. Maybe I should reconsider my reply.

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Lias

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#1955819 12-Feb-2018 16:04

The right to free speech always trumps someones right to not be offended.

You might not think Bob Jones is funny, hell you might be deeply and mortally offended by every word that come out of his mouth.. That's your problem, not his, and you need to suck it up and move on.

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MikeB4

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#1955852 12-Feb-2018 16:12

Lias:

The right to free speech always trumps someones right to not be offended.

You might not think Bob Jones is funny, hell you might be deeply and mortally offended by every word that come out of his mouth.. That's your problem, not his, and you need to suck it up and move on.

So racism is OK

Hate speech is OK

Inciting racial disharmony is OK

No YOU are the one with a problem if you think it is OK.

With that I will take my leave

Varkk

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#1955874 12-Feb-2018 16:23

Lias:

The right to free speech always trumps someones right to not be offended.

You might not think Bob Jones is funny, hell you might be deeply and mortally offended by every word that come out of his mouth.. That's your problem, not his, and you need to suck it up and move on.

The right to free speech means we can call him out on his stupid, racist remarks. If this offends you maybe you should suck it up and move on.

networkn

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#1955913 12-Feb-2018 17:33

MikeB4:
Geektastic:

Whining snowflakes. Suck it up.

So people who oppose racism are snowflakes

No, but people who can't understand satire and humor are.

networkn

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#1955914 12-Feb-2018 17:35

MikeB4:

I swear Hoskings and Jones must be related, they are equally objectionable.

Or.. people who are continually offended by them should lighten up a little.

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networkn

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#1955915 12-Feb-2018 17:37

MikeB4:

Pumpedd:

get over it guys and gals....its free speech. If you don't like what someone says dont watch/read it. Simple. In many ways what he said was right imo.

Hate speech and speech inciting racial unrest is not part of free speech. If you believe that was he said was right then frankly you have a disturbing issue.

If it was indeed either of those two things (pro tip, it wasn't) then the police and the race relations office would be all over it.

Most smart people can understand it for what it was, the ultimate troll.

Do I think it was funny? No, not particularly. Strip him of his knighthood, don't be ridiculous!

Pumpedd

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#1955932 12-Feb-2018 18:18

I guess if we started a petition to strip Sir Ngata Love of his knighthood we would be labelled as racist?

Lias

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#1955978 12-Feb-2018 20:09

MikeB4:

So racism is OK

Hate speech is OK

Inciting racial disharmony is OK

Yes, actually they are okay in a way, that's kind of the whole point of free speech, being able to say things even if others find them distasteful. People say plenty of things I find distasteful or wrong, but I will still defend their right to say them.

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#1955980 12-Feb-2018 20:13

Varkk:

The right to free speech means we can call him out on his stupid, racist remarks. If this offends you maybe you should suck it up and move on.

I agree with you, you do have every right to call him out. What people don't have the right to do is say that he shouldn't be allowed to say things you don't like in the first place (that may not be how you feel, but it's certainly what some have intimated)

JimmyH

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#1963628 24-Feb-2018 21:17

MikeB4:

Hate speech and speech inciting racial unrest is not part of free speech. If you believe that was he said was right then frankly you have a disturbing issue.

Yes, sorry but it is.

I'm a big supporter of free speech. Supporting free speech doesn't just mean supporting comments that you approve of. Heck, I'm sure even Kim Jong Un is a free speech supporter, as long as it's limited to rallies where people shout "We Love Kim Jong Un".

Supporting free speech means standing up and defending someones right to speak, even when they are saying something so stomach-churningly offensive that it makes you feel ill. If you won't do that then you aren't a defender of free speech, not really. Or, in the quote that is often but incorrectly attributed to Voltaire puts it: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Personally, I find the current trend for people to try and shut down others expressing views that they disagree with to be appalling. Particularly on university campuses, the whole point of which is learning and the debate of ideas. If you dislike what Sir Bob said (and I have no good idea of what this actually was, as the article has been erased) then the correct response is to debate and rebut it, not suppress it.

Otherwise you don't have free speech, you have approved speech.

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#1963649 24-Feb-2018 22:10

Pumpedd:
I guess if we started a petition to strip Sir Ngata Love of his knighthood we would be labelled as racist?

If the only reason you did that was actually because Ngata Love is maori then yes that would be racist in the extreme.

Geektastic

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#1963657 24-Feb-2018 22:21

JimmyH:

MikeB4:

Hate speech and speech inciting racial unrest is not part of free speech. If you believe that was he said was right then frankly you have a disturbing issue.

Yes, sorry but it is.

I'm a big supporter of free speech. Supporting free speech doesn't just mean supporting comments that you approve of. Heck, I'm sure even Kim Jong Un is a free speech supporter, as long as it's limited to rallies where people shout "We Love Kim Jong Un".

Supporting free speech means standing up and defending someones right to speak, even when they are saying something so stomach-churningly offensive that it makes you feel ill. If you won't do that then you aren't a defender of free speech, not really. Or, in the quote that is often but incorrectly attributed to Voltaire puts it: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Personally, I find the current trend for people to try and shut down others expressing views that they disagree with to be appalling. Particularly on university campuses, the whole point of which is learning and the debate of ideas. If you dislike what Sir Bob said (and I have no good idea of what this actually was, as the article has been erased) then the correct response is to debate and rebut it, not suppress it.

Otherwise you don't have free speech, you have approved speech.

Funnily enough, the country I associate the most with free speech and freedom of expression is actually the USA. It's the only place I can think of where, for example, a self-styled Nazi party actually has a legal right to express their views and be entitled to police protection from civil disobedience disrupting them whilst doing so. (See for example National Socialist Party of America v Village of Skokie, 1977)

No doubt most would find the views being expressed by such an organisation did not accord with their own; however, it is good in and of itself that the mere fact that the views are not popular is not sufficient to prevent them being expressed. Quite the opposite of what is usually seen on Social Media, for example, where minority views on all kinds of subjects are frequently drowned out in a torrent of protest if the mob decide to take against them.

(Note - I am hoping that the mere mention of that particular party in this context does not constitute Godwins! Since it is merely a factual reference used as an example, I hope not. Apologies in advance if it does - it's not intended to)

MikeAqua

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#1964559 26-Feb-2018 15:03

I didn't think much of that particular column by Jones, but I think it falls short of hate speech, which requires that the material is likely to incite hostility or contempt against a member of particular race/colour/nationality/ethnicity http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0082/latest/DLM304643.html

I don't think that Jone's column will incite hostility or contempt. I do think it was logically flawed and not particularly well written. The argument that there are no full blooded Maori left in NZ is one I have never understood. Relevance aside, I doubt that's accurate.

Ironically though the person going after Jones appears to have both Maori and European ancestry.

Mike

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