Free speech turnaround

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2060355 22-Jul-2018 11:33

The paradox is if an Evil Dictator takes hold and use anti-hate speech laws to block opponents to spread good speech.

Not easy to balance all views.

freitasm

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#2060357 22-Jul-2018 11:35

dwilson:
Geektastic:
Rikkitic:

You are under no compulsion to contribute to this thread.

Of what relevance is that to my question?

I want to make sure it's now ok to refer to, for example, the Labour Party as "socialist scum" before letting rip, so I'm enquiring whether that sort of thing is now ok here, because it never used to be.

Get lost, troll.

I m using a new feature that allows us to kick users from specific threads instead of a full ban. Ironic to have to use it for the first time on a free speech discussion.

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#2060359 22-Jul-2018 11:40

freitasm: The paradox is if an Evil Dictator takes hold and use anti-hate speech laws to block opponents to spread good speech.

Not easy to balance all views.

I am also sensitive to this dilemma. So does the evil dictator gain power by taking advantage of unrestricted free speech? I can think of one example where that has occurred.

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freitasm

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#2060361 22-Jul-2018 11:45

Yes, the Evil Dictator would exploit free speech, like alt-right people do now, crying that their rights are being curbed, even though we know their own ideology would kill this very same right as one of first measures.

It is the same paradox of Trump supporters wearing "Fuck your feelings" t-shirts then crying out when people point out Trump's actions.

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#2060423 22-Jul-2018 14:47

freitasm:
dwilson:

Geektastic:
Rikkitic:

You are under no compulsion to contribute to this thread.

Of what relevance is that to my question?

I want to make sure it's now ok to refer to, for example, the Labour Party as "socialist scum" before letting rip, so I'm enquiring whether that sort of thing is now ok here, because it never used to be.

Get lost, troll.

I m using a new feature that allows us to kick users from specific threads instead of a full ban. Ironic to have to use it for the first time on a free speech discussion.

I know it is your right to kick/ban/block whoever you want, but am a little surprised at this case after reading it a couple of times?

Just yesterday in another thread Rikkitic pleaded with mods not to ban a poster after the poster used the "N" word in a post and as a result no ban was made.

I am not asking for a response or discussion on the issue.

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#2060444 22-Jul-2018 15:23

My request was tongue in cheek, as was the post. You need to have a sense of humour about these things sometimes.

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#2060507 22-Jul-2018 16:56

Rikkitic: Fortunately, they still can't find a venue, though Phil Goff is being sued over that, so who knows?

Not sure how far this'll get. Goff isn't saying these people can't say whatever vile things they wish to say, he's simply saying they can't do it in council property. Council has absolute right as to who it allows, or not, onto it's property, just as any other landowner does.

Rikkitic: I very much hope our own officials send these scumsuckers a very big bill.

They won't. I don't believe there's any legislation which allows such cost recoveries, which is why police still have to foot the bill for their presence at large sporting events, concerts etc. They're effectively a free security guard agency for the promoters of such events.

Pumpedd: Sometimes we need to see evil to understand that it is evil and should be avoided. It is totally wrong for a good democracy to stop people entering a country because it is believed they have strongly alternative views.

If we dont write about these people, dont watch these people, and dont attend their live functions they will simply vanish. Your thread is giving publicity to these people whether you like it or not.

To quote Simon Wiesenthal: "for evil to flourish, it only requires good men* to do nothing"

* people who're easily triggered simply need replace 'men' with 'people'.

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Fred99

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#2060509 22-Jul-2018 16:57

Steve Bannon is starting up a foundation in Brussels, in an attempt to unite populist alt/far right movements across Europe.

Steve Bannon believes in a "final conflict" between a coalition of Judeo Christian cultures vs muslims and "heathen" communists. He actually wants this to happen. Billions would die. Nobody cares. Free speech - LOL.

Steve Bannon helped get Trump elected. Nobody cares.

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#2060521 22-Jul-2018 17:38

Fred99:

Steve Bannon is starting up a foundation in Brussels, in an attempt to unite populist alt/far right movements across Europe.

Steve Bannon believes in a "final conflict" between a coalition of Judeo Christian cultures vs muslims and "heathen" communists. He actually wants this to happen. Billions would die. Nobody cares. Free speech - LOL.

Steve Bannon helped get Trump elected. Nobody cares.

I dont understand why the media give people like this so much attention. He is yet another person who has achieved very little for anyone other than himself.

Fred99

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#2060555 22-Jul-2018 17:49

Pumpedd:

Fred99:

Steve Bannon is starting up a foundation in Brussels, in an attempt to unite populist alt/far right movements across Europe.

Steve Bannon believes in a "final conflict" between a coalition of Judeo Christian cultures vs muslims and "heathen" communists. He actually wants this to happen. Billions would die. Nobody cares. Free speech - LOL.

Steve Bannon helped get Trump elected. Nobody cares.

I dont understand why the media give people like this so much attention. He is yet another person who has achieved very little for anyone other than himself.

Why??? ROFL. So naive. He was CEO of Trump's campaign, then Chief Strategist in Trump's administration.

Through Cambridge Analytica - he used social media to target swing voters in the US which helped get Trump elected.

Sure - he got fired or whatever - but Trump is an opportunist idiot, Bannon was his brains. Bannon actually supports higher taxes on high income earners. Oops - that's a problem for Trump and his corrupt backers.

He gets media attention because he's been hugely influential in global geopolitics.

He's unelectable of course - ugly and dangerous.

Pumpedd

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#2060674 22-Jul-2018 21:04

Yes....but he doesnt deserve any credit for anything....and yes he is an ugly person. I had never heard of him until the Trump campaign.

Fred99

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#2060699 22-Jul-2018 22:06

Pumpedd:

Yes....but he doesnt deserve any credit for anything....and yes he is an ugly person. I had never heard of him until the Trump campaign.

In your world he doesn't "deserve credit" for anything. In my world, he was an very active person working with the aim of getting a president of the US elected. That's the most powerful and influential nation on earth, the president - as he is demonstrating - has considerable executive power over policy that nation exerts, for better or worse, on the rest of the planet we share.

At the moment - on balance - that's definitely worse.

As for Southern, maybe she's pretty - in a skin-deep kind of way. Electable even - an "incel" moron's wet dream. She's truly as dumb as f%ck, but that doesn't really matter, there's no intelligent debate on "issues". It's not supposed to appeal to people who can think - anybody who disagrees with the 23yo dropout moron - they're all "liberals". One of the supposed "issues" that she's coming to promote, is that she believes there's scientific justification for racial prejudice, because her race of blue-eyed blondes are "proven" to be superior to others. Based on total utter BS, divisive, evil. You want to debate that - or argue that there's merit in debating it?

Convince a moron that she's evil and full of utter BS? I can't - they won't listen to me. "Debate" the "issues" - oh please GTFO of here. The "issue" is good vs evil. NZ should NOT be welcoming these evil pieces of sh*t to "debate" issues which should NEVER be a subject of rational debate. There's no "freedom of speech" issue - they freely spread their filthy disease via facebook, youtube etc with no censorship in NZ. It's all there free for you to see. What we're doing is going further - extending a hand of friendship to utter scum, on the basis that "freedom of speech" is so important to a country that we'll roll out the red carpet - to dirty filthy fascist scum. For the umpteenth time, their visas should have been rejected on "character" grounds. If not, then WTF is the point of having a "character" requirement? Was it set up to deny Idi Amin a visa - because he ate his enemies? Less than that, then you're ok?

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#2060701 22-Jul-2018 22:09

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018654471/free-speech-debate-goes-full-noise

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tdgeek

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#2060716 22-Jul-2018 22:48

Fred99:

Pumpedd:

Yes....but he doesnt deserve any credit for anything....and yes he is an ugly person. I had never heard of him until the Trump campaign.

In your world he doesn't "deserve credit" for anything. In my world, he was an very active person working with the aim of getting a president of the US elected. That's the most powerful and influential nation on earth, the president - as he is demonstrating - has considerable executive power over policy that nation exerts, for better or worse, on the rest of the planet we share.

At the moment - on balance - that's definitely worse.

As for Southern, maybe she's pretty - in a skin-deep kind of way. Electable even - an "incel" moron's wet dream. She's truly as dumb as f%ck, but that doesn't really matter, there's no intelligent debate on "issues". It's not supposed to appeal to people who can think - anybody who disagrees with the 23yo dropout moron - they're all "liberals". One of the supposed "issues" that she's coming to promote, is that she believes there's scientific justification for racial prejudice, because her race of blue-eyed blondes are "proven" to be superior to others. Based on total utter BS, divisive, evil. You want to debate that - or argue that there's merit in debating it?

Convince a moron that she's evil and full of utter BS? I can't - they won't listen to me. "Debate" the "issues" - oh please GTFO of here. The "issue" is good vs evil. NZ should NOT be welcoming these evil pieces of sh*t to "debate" issues which should NEVER be a subject of rational debate. There's no "freedom of speech" issue - they freely spread their filthy disease via facebook, youtube etc with no censorship in NZ. It's all there free for you to see. What we're doing is going further - extending a hand of friendship to utter scum, on the basis that "freedom of speech" is so important to a country that we'll roll out the red carpet - to dirty filthy fascist scum. For the umpteenth time, their visas should have been rejected on "character" grounds. If not, then WTF is the point of having a "character" requirement? Was it set up to deny Idi Amin a visa - because he ate his enemies? Less than that, then you're ok?

I dont see any welcoming or red carpet. They qualified. Immigration said they qualified, and while they strongly disagree with their MO, they qualified. They cant seem to find a venue. Maybe they will. The audience will be a portion of like idiots, satisfying themselves. Likely to be more protesters bitching at them. They will get the audience they deserve, then they are gone.

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#2060719 22-Jul-2018 22:54

Rikkitic:

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018654471/free-speech-debate-goes-full-noise

Good article. They got not many in Cairns. probably half of them were curious thanks to the media. Maybe many were anti. Maybe 1 was secretly alt-right.

So it all worked out. A cliche is cream rises to the top, and in this case, the sediment sinks to the bottom. I see they got no venue here, so society has prevailed. Free speech has also prevailed.

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