Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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#2670610 9-Mar-2021 19:38

Rikkitic:

Handle9:

No other government had a minister for open government fired for lying.

Done.

How so, 'done'? This proves nothing as far as I can see. Dishonest ministers get sacked for lying all the time. How does this demonstrate something systematic or institutional? What does a single anecdote prove?

I'm sure you can work it out.

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#2670611 9-Mar-2021 19:40

tdgeek:

So there is no baseline. Where we say x=0. So, as we aren't prepared to draw a baseline, we cannot measure transparency or lack of it.

There is no scientific measurement for this, so I am not sure how you would form a baseline that was accurate or could be used to measure subsequent Governments.

Well, I expect this to be rubbished as usual, but this has been the *least* transparent and open Government in a very long time, in my opinion. The list of ways they have not been open and transparent is easily found with a quick search.

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#2670613 9-Mar-2021 19:41

networkn:

Well, I expect this to be rubbished as usual, but this has been the *least* transparent and open Government in a very long time, in my opinion. The list of ways they have not been open and transparent is easily found with a quick search.

Nah. Just a fairly similar one as the previous government but with slightly less toxic mates like Carrick Graham and Slater.

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#2670614 9-Mar-2021 19:45

Handle9:

No other government had a minister for open government fired for lying.

Done.

Seems transparent to me, as compared to brushing it under the carpet till the news gets bored

tdgeek

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#2670616 9-Mar-2021 19:49

networkn:

There is no scientific measurement for this, so I am not sure how you would form a baseline that was accurate or could be used to measure subsequent Governments.

Well, I expect this to be rubbished as usual, but this has been the *least* transparent and open Government in a very long time, in my opinion. The list of ways they have not been open and transparent is easily found with a quick search.

Rubbished as usual, yes I expect that. No there is no measurement, but one might have expected a comparison in order to bag the Government.Cant see how you can compare yet you fail to compare.

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#2676405 18-Mar-2021 10:47

So, apparently, Megan Woods has used some of the Kiwibuild money (which we still don't know the cost of, which isn't very transparent of them) to do the Ihumatao deal.

The irony of using a fund designed for increasing housing, to prevent the building of houses surely can't be lost on people.

They were specifically told not to do it by Treasury. Not the first time they have ignored advice by treasury.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/03/treasury-warned-government-against-the-way-it-did-ihum-tao-deal.html

Doesn't seem like Megan Woods is much of an improvement over Twyford.

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#2676461 18-Mar-2021 12:25

networkn:
So, apparently, Megan Woods has used some of the Kiwibuild money (which we still don't know the cost of, which isn't very transparent of them) to do the Ihumatao deal.

The irony of using a fund designed for increasing housing, to prevent the building of houses surely can't be lost on people.

They were specifically told not to do it by Treasury. Not the first time they have ignored advice by treasury.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/03/treasury-warned-government-against-the-way-it-did-ihum-tao-deal.html

Doesn't seem like Megan Woods is much of an improvement over Twyford.

Do we know how many houses have been built as of now?

GV27

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#2676466 18-Mar-2021 12:45

tdgeek:

Rubbished as usual, yes I expect that. No there is no measurement, but one might have expected a comparison in order to bag the Government.Cant see how you can compare yet you fail to compare.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2103/S00043/latest-oia-lgoima-data-released.htm

In the six months from 1 July to 30 December 2020, the Ombudsman received 667 OIA complaints, a 17 per cent increase on the previous six months. The number of LGOIMA complaints received was 141, an eight per cent decrease.

"The number of complaints I receive under both Acts fluctuates, according to the time of the year and external events", Mr Boshier says.

"I remain concerned about the number of complaints that concern delays in making decisions on official information requests", Mr Boshier says.

Seems to be about the best metric you're going to get - not exactly positive but it's not like the Ardern government invented stonewalling or spin. You can argue the toss about whether they are living up to their own hype about transparency though.

Rikkitic

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#2676468 18-Mar-2021 12:54

networkn:

So, apparently, Megan Woods has used some of the Kiwibuild money (which we still don't know the cost of, which isn't very transparent of them) to do the Ihumatao deal.

The irony of using a fund designed for increasing housing, to prevent the building of houses surely can't be lost on people.

They were specifically told not to do it by Treasury. Not the first time they have ignored advice by treasury.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/03/treasury-warned-government-against-the-way-it-did-ihum-tao-deal.html

Doesn't seem like Megan Woods is much of an improvement over Twyford.

I don't know enough about the details of this to venture an intelligent commentary, but the Newshub report seems to be mainly reflecting David Seymour's opinion. The RNZ one appears better informed.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#2676470 18-Mar-2021 12:58

Rikkitic:

I don't know enough about the details of this to venture an intelligent commentary, but the Newshub report seems to be mainly reflecting David Seymour's opinion. The RNZ one appears better informed.

If you don't know enough details to venture commentary, then how is it you are determining that David Seymours opinion is less valid than that of newshub? Just cause it's David?

The issue being raised was that Labour has opted to use Kiwibuild funds in order to buy land, which effectively has stopped the building of houses on that land, against treasury advice.

I don't see any dispute in the facts?

Rikkitic

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#2676475 18-Mar-2021 13:11

What I'm saying is that a very broad issue is being reported in a very narrow fashion, which effectively distorts it. Only talking about a loss of housing opportunity and the redirection of taxpayer money completely ignores the reason this is a big deal to the people who have devoted so much energy and passion to protesting it. No context at all is offered, and context is everything here. After seeing some of the documentary last night on Maori TV about how the crown illegally pushed people out of Auckland, massacring and dispossessing them along the way, I'm not surprised they are still complaining about it. As I said, I don't know enough about the history or details to pass judgement so facilely, but it seems to me there is at least a possibility that Jacinda Ardern chose the least awful way at her disposal to address a very difficult situation.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2676486 18-Mar-2021 13:26

networkn:

which effectively has stopped the building of houses on that land, against treasury advice.

It's stopped Fletchers from building houses on the site. Fletchers are happy. Houses will be built by the owners of the land for the owners of the land.

Woodhouse: "National would protect the land owner's property rights and ensure full and final treaty settlements are just that - full and final."

Bravo. It wasn't a "treaty settlement", it was settlement of a dispute over ownership of confiscated land, and the settlement can't be used as precedent for relitigating settled treaty claims.

Handle9

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#2676677 18-Mar-2021 18:37

networkn:
Rikkitic:

I don't know enough about the details of this to venture an intelligent commentary, but the Newshub report seems to be mainly reflecting David Seymour's opinion. The RNZ one appears better informed.

If you don't know enough details to venture commentary, then how is it you are determining that David Seymours opinion is less valid than that of newshub? Just cause it's David?

The issue being raised was that Labour has opted to use Kiwibuild funds in order to buy land, which effectively has stopped the building of houses on that land, against treasury advice.

I don't see any dispute in the facts?

Lol. It's been bought for housing.

GV27

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#2676795 19-Mar-2021 06:32

Handle9:

Lol. It's been bought for housing.

Additional cost for the Government, for what will likely be less houses than Fletcher was planning, at some yet-to-be-determined point in the future?

Not exactly 'deal of the century' is it.

Handle9

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#2676796 19-Mar-2021 06:34

GV27:
Handle9:

Lol. It's been bought for housing.

Additional cost for the Government, for what will likely be less houses than Fletcher was planning, at some yet-to-be-determined point in the future?

Not exactly 'deal of the century' is it.

So? No one claimed it was a purely financial deal.

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