Elon Musk, the man

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#2925251 11-Jun-2022 14:14

GV27:

surfisup1000:

You are also a tax avoider because you deliberately claim expenses to reduce your tax liability.

Claiming legitimate expenses is not considered 'tax avoidance' in NZ. 'Tax Avoidance' here is a specific thing that is an absolutely stonking no-no.

General international meanings of the terms, lifted from the USA IRS:

tax avoidance—An action taken to lessen tax liability and maximize after-tax income.

tax evasion—The failure to pay or a deliberate underpayment of taxes.

The latter is illegal, but avoidance refers to the used of legal methods.

gzt

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#2925252 11-Jun-2022 14:20

MikeB4: That collectively they are planets worst tax avoiders, that is obscene. Shall I go on?

This issue is slowly being wrapped up by international tax treaties. I appreciate you are making a general point about this. It has become a general argument and derailed the topic. Do you have any specific point or allegation about this in relation to Musk?

Rikkitic

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#2925255 11-Jun-2022 14:32

Has anyone ever noticed how all these billionaires develop a sort of superior pursed lip sneer over time? Musk has it, Thiel really has it, so has Zuckerberg. Maybe it comes from sucking money through a straw.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

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#2925258 11-Jun-2022 14:45

Scott3:

General international meanings of the terms, lifted from the USA IRS:

tax avoidance—An action taken to lessen tax liability and maximize after-tax income.

tax evasion—The failure to pay or a deliberate underpayment of taxes.

The latter is illegal, but avoidance refers to the used of legal methods.

And as stated, in the NZ context, we have specific anti-avoidance provisions in our legislation, as opposed to permitted deductions.

surfisup1000

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#2925261 11-Jun-2022 14:47

Scott3:

General international meanings of the terms, lifted from the USA IRS:

tax avoidance—An action taken to lessen tax liability and maximize after-tax income.

Under your definition, claiming expenses sounds like tax avoidance.

An action (claiming expenses) taken to lessen tax liability (expenses do reduce tax liability) and maximize after-tax income (also true).

Investing in a Pie fund is also tax avoidance. Likely that hundreds of thousands of kiwis do this too.

It is somewhat scurrilous of mikeb4 to somehow imply that tax avoidance is illegal.

surfisup1000

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#2925262 11-Jun-2022 14:49

Rikkitic:

Has anyone ever noticed how all these billionaires develop a sort of superior pursed lip sneer over time? Musk has it, Thiel really has it, so has Zuckerberg. Maybe it comes from sucking money through a straw.

Your envy is unbecoming.

Rikkitic

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#2925265 11-Jun-2022 15:01

surfisup1000:

Rikkitic:

Has anyone ever noticed how all these billionaires develop a sort of superior pursed lip sneer over time? Musk has it, Thiel really has it, so has Zuckerberg. Maybe it comes from sucking money through a straw.

Your envy is unbecoming.

My envy is non-existent. I envy folk musicians. I do not envy billionaires.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

kotuku4

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#2925269 11-Jun-2022 15:24

"At the end of the game, the pawn and the king go back in the same box".

Lias

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#2925282 11-Jun-2022 16:17

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10602259/Grimes-reveals-Elon-Musk-lived-insecure-40-000-house.html

Seems relevant to the whining about greed and billionaires, he doesn't seem like a normal billionaire. Sold all his mansions, now has a tiny house (but apparently regularly stays with friends, most of whom presumably own mansions). Pouring money into getting to Mars for no apparent commercial gain.

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kingdragonfly

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#2925284 11-Jun-2022 16:34

Eva888: One of the richest men in the world, probably doesn’t give a rat’s a* if anyone thinks he’s great or not.

Elon does care what every person thinks. Someone's already mentioned in passing where Elon Musk called a British diver in Thai cave rescue 'pedo,' because he didn't like to be told his cave submarine idea was dumb.

He has a serious "cool dad" syndrome, where he wants to be the hippest man in the room. Just look at the "too cool for the room" names of his SpaceX fleet.

Not mentioned in the following article: If he thought the joke was a 6/10 because it was "woke", why did he post it as his own?

New York Times: Elon Musk: Memelord or Meme Lifter?

The billionaire has been posting content creators’ work without credit. Some are frustrated; others, simply puzzled.

The world’s richest man, Elon Musk, posted a snippet of a Zodiac Killer comedy article to his Twitter earlier this week, without saying where it came from – which has raised the question of properly crediting creators online.

After posting the tweet, the editor of the website it came from asked why any reference to the publication had been cut out of the headline. Musk retorted that it was a ‘6/10’ joke and to ‘get off the high horse’.

Following this, the response from the website included jabs at his popularity and lack of comedic skills, after his dud performance on Saturday Night Live last year.

… Most recently, he’s been tangled in a web of confusion over his supposed plans to buy Twitter and is seemingly trying to back out of the $44 billion purchase after stock at Tesla and Twitter began to tank due to his announcement. He’s also being sued by investors due to alleged stock manipulation.

The joke in question surrounded the Zodiac Killer’s cryptic messages that have never been fully solved and how video player VLC can read just about anything.
Hard Drive, a comedy and parody video game website similar to The Onion, took to Twitter, after being told to back down by the billionaire, with another article about how Musk is only going to Mars because no one likes him on Earth.

During the exchange, Musk claimed that they didn’t know comedy due to them being ‘woke’.

Eva888

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#2925373 11-Jun-2022 19:42

Someone who is wildly innovative, has worked hard, created jobs and becomes rich from it deserves some admiration for achievement. We don’t have to like their smile, the way they do business or the party they vote for.

Thank goodness for people like him that give us innovation and technology that aimed beyond our small imagination. I bet the people getting internet from Starlink are grateful to him.

ezbee

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#2925401 11-Jun-2022 20:47

Lias,

It may look like Musk is pouring money into Mars with no commercial gain.
Though a good portion of that is other peoples/investors money.
Musk owns about 48% of SpaceX apparently last time I saw.

I gather that to take Starlink to next level, and to keep up with the eventual decay of satellites he will need the launch capability of starship.

The economics of rideshare for other satellites would also benefit a larger launch vehicle.
Putting crunch on all other launch companies.

Then there are lucrative US Government contracts that might come up.

I'd not be surprised if that's the real business plan and payoff.
The Mars thing is publicity to keep him and the share prices of all his companies humming.

Maybe US Government can be pressured by public to bankroll the final riskiest steps.
A future president who wants a Kennedy moment.

I think that with Falcon the US Military paid a huge amount for launches
and subsidized or paid for all of the launch site construction.

On a practical level short term visits to Mars with humans are marginal.
Living on Mars for any length of time given the utter hostility of environment another matter.
Even our future Robot masters might find the high energy particles too much for their circuits.

Yep give Musk credit where credit is due, don't fall into Mother Teresa-ing him.
The brutal single mindedness does get things done where they can.
He did the right thing for Ukraine, though US Government is picking up a good portion of the bill.
However in the case of air hockey tables in vacuum tubes, boring, and solar not so much.
He only cares for you as much as you may be useful to him, and his vanity, like many of us.

Tinkerisk

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#2925421 11-Jun-2022 21:40

- I undoubtedly recognise his achievements and vision. He clearly states what he expects and obsessives there always had to be.

- However, the realisation of success was and is primarily achieved by his workers and employees - to them belongs my higher appreciation, since he probably expects more than the labour laws of some countries allow - and among them those of the not exactly least productive.

- I would not tolerate him around me for a second in a meeting - ergo I would be fired just as quickly.
- In the path of every hunter there are prey/victims. Their number is probably higher with him than anywhere else.
- I don't (knowingly) use products made by him and hope it stays that way.

Qui nihil scit, omnia credere debet.
Firewalls do NOT stop dragons.
In effect we have everything to hide from someone, and no idea who someone is.

driller2000

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#2925458 11-Jun-2022 23:33

alasta:

Teslas are popular with computer nerds and in that respect they occupy a legitimate market niche.

Whether they can continue to be sustainable as a standalone company is another question. I suspect they will eventually get taken over by someone like Ford or Volkswagen.

Lol not a chance unless!...unless market caps change massively:

Tesla = $721 BN

Ford = $50 BN

Volkswagen = $109 BN

https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/largest-automakers-by-market-cap/

alexx

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#2925465 12-Jun-2022 01:20

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Let's face it, 2 - 3 or so years ago he pretty much had the EV market to himself \ Tesla.

I'm pretty sure the Nissan Leaf has been around for more than three years. Perhaps longer than any Tesla sedan (perhaps the Tesla roadster might have been earlier?).

gzt: Many countries have now mandated an end to fossil fuel vehicles. This is all down to the effort of Musk and Tesla.

I'm pretty sure the VW diesel emissions scandal was the main driver in many of those countries.

What I find interesting is how so many people believe the Musk marketing and quietly ignore it when he doesn't deliver what he promises or when he says he will deliver. The same people that oppose any form of public transport as wasteful of tax/ratepayers money, actually believe they will ride on a hyperloop within the next few years, or that it could exist in anything but a highly subsidised environment. Did anyone here order a Cybertruck?

Regarding his political ideology, I'm not sure he has one, but might adopt one from time to time if it helps him.

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