NZ as a Republic?

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#2971306 21-Sep-2022 21:01

tdgeek: The Head of State would be the PM. She/he already is. [snip]. GG represents the Monarch. But the GG doesnt ponder over the law, its custom. So effectively the current Government is in control, so the PM is Head of Sate

Incorrect. After an election the governor general basically decides who has a majority/plurality of the election behind them and therefore who has the mandate to form or attempt to form a government. Usually this is simple and the answer is obvious.

Problem is, there are all kinds of potential weird edge cases which thankfully hardly ever happen but when they do a decision is critical. Obviously you can't have a prime minister doing that job.. and choosing themselves..

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#2971307 21-Sep-2022 21:02

@Lias:

MikeB4: Given the Royals have next to zero power here removing them from our system of government will have no impact. My personal view it is time for Aotearoa to stand as a fully independent nation. It will be one big step away from the colonial horrors.

That's fine, you go live in Aotearoa, I'll stay in New Zealand.

What do you mean by that?

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#2971312 21-Sep-2022 21:08

freitasm:

What do you mean by that?

That I strenuously object to the suggestion that we change New Zealand's name to Aotearoa and that people who want a country called Aotearoa should do so elsewhere? Nor do I believe we should we change our flag, become a republic, or leave the commonwealth for that matter.

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#2971313 21-Sep-2022 21:09

shk292: Having a republic means we'd need to have a head of state other than the monarch, which would then incur the expense of elections.

The Governor General has the critical role. At the moment we kind of appoint someone with a track record of responsibility and service who everyone likes and hope for the best. We could keep doing that as a republic and call it 'responsible decider person' if we really want to..

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#2971314 21-Sep-2022 21:11

gzt:
tdgeek: The Head of State would be the PM. She/he already is. [snip]. GG represents the Monarch. But the GG doesnt ponder over the law, its custom. So effectively the current Government is in control, so the PM is Head of Sate

Incorrect. After an election the governor general basically decides who has a majority/plurality of the election behind them and therefore who has the mandate to form or attempt to form a government. Usually this is simple and the answer is obvious.

Problem is, there are all kinds of potential weird edge cases which thankfully hardly ever happen but when they do a decision is critical. Obviously you can't have a prime minister doing that job.. and choosing themselves..

Ok, so there is a hung Parliament as just one example. No one knows the procedures apart from the GG? Both parties have no idea so they wait to see what happens. I doubt it.

Obviously in an election the old PM or the presumed new PM wont make that decision. In a Republic the Constitution makes that decision. We dont have a Constitution today but we have rules. The rules that the GG follows. He/she doesn't make a decision AFAIK. If so, does that mean that some GG's would make a different decision to others?

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#2971315 21-Sep-2022 21:12

@Lias:

freitasm:

What do you mean by that?

That I strenuously object to the suggestion that we change New Zealand's name to Aotearoa and that people who want a country called Aotearoa should do so elsewhere? Nor do I believe we should we change our flag, become a republic, or leave the commonwealth for that matter.

So perhaps you should express your views more clearly, least people think your previous post was some racist bullshit. And nowhere in this thread people discussed changing the name or flag of this country - you were the first one to mention it.

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#2971316 21-Sep-2022 21:13

gzt:
The Governor General has the critical role. At the moment we kind of appoint someone with a track record of responsibility and service who everyone likes and hope for the best. We could keep doing that as a republic and call it 'responsible decider person' if we really want to..

Are you saying that the GG has no rules to go by, so can just choose?? I severely doubt that.

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#2971318 21-Sep-2022 21:15

The GGs role in the formation of government is purely ceremonial.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2971319 21-Sep-2022 21:15

freitasm:

So perhaps you should express your views more clearly, least people think your previous post was some racist bullshit.

I genuinely don't see how what I said could be taken as being racist. It has nothing to do with race, it's about the name of our country.

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#2971321 21-Sep-2022 21:18

@Lias:

freitasm:

So perhaps you should express your views more clearly, least people think your previous post was some racist bullshit.

I genuinely don't see how what I said could be taken as being racist. It has nothing to do with race, it's about the name of our country.

The discussion around the Aotearoa name seems to be a current racist dog whistle.

The topic is about New Zealand becoming a republic. You are the one who brought flag and country name into this discussion. I would rather not go into those topics in this thread.

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#2971323 21-Sep-2022 21:22

As a nation we need to discuss and debate this issue. It is not inconceivable that the UK could decide to abolish the monarchy. The remaining (from memory) 17 nations in the commonwealth still with the monarchy as head of state need to be prepared for that. It would be better if we made the decision as a nation before a decision is again forced upon us.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2971327 21-Sep-2022 21:30

freitasm:

The Aotearoa name seems to be a current racist dog whistle.

The topic is about New Zealand becoming a republic. You are the one who brought flag and country name into this discussion. I would rather not go into those topics in this thread.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I disagree that I raised the name. The legal and official name of our country is New Zealand, not Aotearoa or Aotearoa New Zealand. Mike introduced the the country name when he said "My personal view it is time for Aotearoa to stand as a fully independent nation." when clearly we were talking about NZ becoming a republic.

Happy to take it up in DM's thou if you prefer.

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#2971329 21-Sep-2022 21:37

MikeB4: As a nation we need to discuss and debate this issue. It is not inconceivable that the UK could decide to abolish the monarchy. The remaining (from memory) 17 nations in the commonwealth still with the monarchy as head of state need to be prepared for that. It would be better if we made the decision as a nation before a decision is again forced upon us.

If the UK abolished it's monarchy, I don't think that fundamentally changes anything for us does it? My understanding was always that the "King/Queen of England" and the "King/Queen of New Zealand" (ditto Scotland, Canada, etc) were two separate theoretical/legal entities who just so happened to inhabit the same physical body.

Even it that understand is incorrect, what's to stop us replacing that particular monarchy with our own? I'd be in for King Willy Apiata the 1st of his name. Hell just to really throw the cat amongst the pigeons, what's to stop us replacing the British Monarchy with Kingi Tuhetiea and the Kingitanga (other than intra tribal politics that would probably result in a civil war lol)

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#2971330 21-Sep-2022 21:41

The Crown are not separate entities.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2971332 21-Sep-2022 21:48

If we ever go through the expensive of becoming a republic we should do it properly and get a way from the whole fake monarchy aka Presidential system that many countries use.

Let us have something more radical and interesting such as a three person head of state that balances treaty, public and government.

For example how about a group of three people who formally are the head of state.

One of Maori descent elected by the Maori electoral roll.
One directly elected by the general electoral roll.
One appointed by the current government.

With the additional requirements that at least one of the three members should be a woman and one a man. Then offset their terms so that all three can't be elected in the same period.

Or even more radically make it so the member directly elected by the general role is one of 10 candidates randomly selected from the population each election cycle. Or that for the government appointed position they instead recommend 5 candidates and the public elects there preferred candidate out of the government short list. Finally if all three agree they can postpone a government law/bill until the next election cycle, otherwise only a majority is needed to enact a law.

Three people would provide a degree of balance along with offset terms, and in the more radical option how would you like it if you had a chance at being elected as a Tri-head of state for the nation?

Stuff having a monarchy or a 'term limited monarch/president', lets have something modern and more representative!

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