'Something rotten in the state of Denmark'

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#3004064 1-Dec-2022 12:10

But approved, organised disruption will still inconvenience a few.

Yes I do want people with different motivations to be treated differently.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

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#3004069 1-Dec-2022 12:17

But my main point is in at least the UK they're constantly making it more difficult to disagree and the consequences more severe if you do.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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#3004077 1-Dec-2022 12:42

rb99:

But my main point is in at least the UK they're constantly making it more difficult to disagree and the consequences more severe if you do.

The consequences aren't for 'disagreeing'. The consequences are for being a punisher about it who thinks that disagreeing makes you untouchable.

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#3004094 1-Dec-2022 13:29

rb99:

But my main point is in at least the UK they're constantly making it more difficult to disagree and the consequences more severe if you do.

Actually not unlike China.

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ezbee

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#3004115 1-Dec-2022 14:40

Is it more difficult or is your protest method getting more extreme.
Your right to 'disagree' is unhindered, none of us have a right to get our 'way' 100%, 100% of the time.

In liberal democracies there are many methods of protest accepted and you can even organize with police a suitable time and place. In turn for being sensible you may get free traffic control.

There are many protests you can do without unconditionally blocking roads, motorways, potentially vandalizing irreplaceable artworks as well.

Karen did not turn up to do traffic control as she got in an argument on the way.
That family in the car that swerved off the road should have been more careful, as for the fuel tanker that followed.

Smart protests require thought, and maybe that crazy TikTok like challenge is enough for your lazy mind.
Protests that engage people including your opponents, make them think and change minds harder.

Is it about your cause or just about your fame, about you getting your way ?

If we all did this all the time what society would you have.
Every day a Brian Tamaki blocking the motorway after prayers day,
until we stop sinning and tithe to him.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFDcoX7s6rE

Oh, P.S. the 'you' is more metaphorical, aiming at these protesters, not directly at poster.
Nothing personal.

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#3004341 1-Dec-2022 20:34

'Something rotten in the state of Denmark'

The linked BBC article refers to events in the UK.

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#3004345 1-Dec-2022 20:51

rb99: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/29/just-stop-oil-activist-sentenced-to-six-months-in-prison-for-motorway-disruption

In summary a protester or several protesters professionally climbed a gantry and hung a banner on it. It looks tastefully and securely attached. This was the end of the world for the authorities and the police shut down the motorway entirely.

I can understand that decision. At the same time it seems like a typical UK overreaction. I have seen a number of protest banners attached to overbridges during motorway commutes in NZ. Usually with two or three people looking after it. I expect the police turn up after a while and assist in removal.

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#3004352 1-Dec-2022 21:12

rb99:
They might sometimes bugger things up for some people, but at least they get off their assets and do something, unlike me. And being jailed for the sin of inconveniencing people is just wrong.

I take it from this statement that you feel the people who occupied the New Zealand parliament grounds also should have no consequences for their actions?

Rikkitic

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#3004361 1-Dec-2022 22:02

Handle9:
rb99:

They might sometimes bugger things up for some people, but at least they get off their assets and do something, unlike me. And being jailed for the sin of inconveniencing people is just wrong.

I take it from this statement that you feel the people who occupied the New Zealand parliament grounds also should have no consequences for their actions?

You are taking conflation to a whole new level here.

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#3004364 1-Dec-2022 22:09

Rikkitic:
Handle9:

I take it from this statement that you feel the people who occupied the New Zealand parliament grounds also should have no consequences for their actions?

You are taking conflation to a whole new level here.

Not at all. You don’t get to have different rules for protests you like to ones you don’t like.

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#3004369 1-Dec-2022 22:22

Handle9:

Not at all. You don’t get to have different rules for protests you like to ones you don’t like.

Do you really think what happened at Parliament is equivalent to blocking a motorway?

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#3004383 1-Dec-2022 23:26

Rikkitic:
Handle9:

Not at all. You don’t get to have different rules for protests you like to ones you don’t like.

Do you really think what happened at Parliament is equivalent to blocking a motorway?

Exactly equivalent, of course not. It’s on the same continuum though. I’d expect the stuff that happened at parliament to get comparatively more severe sentences than people blocking a motorway.

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#3004417 2-Dec-2022 07:37

Handle9:

Exactly equivalent, of course not. It’s on the same continuum though. I’d expect the stuff that happened at parliament to get comparatively more severe sentences than people blocking a motorway.

According to your logic, women should not have been given the vote and neither should black people in America. Both of these movements and many other worthy causes began with actions on that 'same continuum'.

Just to be clear, I do not think the occupation of parliament was on the same continuum and I support the police action to end it.

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#3004418 2-Dec-2022 07:39

Rikkitic:

According to your logic, women should not have been given the vote and neither should black people in America. Both of these movements and many other worthy causes began with actions on that 'same continuum'.

And in those cases, I'm sure plenty of people were prepared to go to jail for what they believed in.

The issue I see here is that people think the thing they believe in means they should be above criminal consequences.

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#3004423 2-Dec-2022 07:55

Rikkitic:
Handle9:

Exactly equivalent, of course not. It’s on the same continuum though. I’d expect the stuff that happened at parliament to get comparatively more severe sentences than people blocking a motorway.

According to your logic, women should not have been given the vote and neither should black people in America. Both of these movements and many other worthy causes began with actions on that 'same continuum'.

Just to be clear, I do not think the occupation of parliament was on the same continuum and I support the police action to end it.

Where did I talk about whether any particular cause was worthy? Please show me this particular comment?

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