UK prime minister Boris Johnson

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#2375070 13-Dec-2019 21:50

It's the media.

It's the racists.

It's not the anti-semites because they were on our side.

All we know is it's definitely not our fault. Never is.

Handle9

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#2375086 13-Dec-2019 22:41

SJB:
The SNP need the approval of the UK Government for another independence referendum. They won't get it while Johnson is PM.

Ah the irony...

Fred99

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#2375200 14-Dec-2019 10:43

Handle9:
SJB:

The SNP need the approval of the UK Government for another independence referendum. They won't get it while Johnson is PM.

Ah the irony...

Even funnier, Tory trolls on Twitter etc are shouting that the SNP only got 45% of the vote in Scotland (but 48/59 seats) so have no mandate to call a referendum.

Yet their Conservative party only got 43.6% of the UK vote.

marmel

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#2375239 14-Dec-2019 11:24

Fred99:
Handle9:
SJB:

The SNP need the approval of the UK Government for another independence referendum. They won't get it while Johnson is PM.

Ah the irony...

Even funnier, Tory trolls on Twitter etc are shouting that the SNP only got 45% of the vote in Scotland (but 48/59 seats) so have no mandate to call a referendum.

Yet their Conservative party only got 43.6% of the UK vote.

Meanwhile in NZ the current government (Labour/NZF) actually got less of the vote combined than the highest polling party.

Fortunately they were able to scrape across the line with a confidence and supply deal in exchange for cancelling some major roaring projects and building a light rail system to the airport. How is that rail project going by the way?

I wonder if the Democrats will take note of what has happened? Of the major elections of recent times that have swung right it was due to the centre left swinging too far from the centre block that elects governments. The democrats don’t appear to have any realistic centre left presidential candidate at the moment, unless HRC is going to make an unadvisable return. I can’t see the US electing Sanders or Warren, especially when they are backed by the likes of AOC etc.

The media like to make a big deal out of politicians like AOC and our very own Chloe with her “Boomer” comment because it sells ads but the harsh reality is the centre voting block don’t like it and don’t elect governments if said politicians are going to be playing a major part.

Like it or not centre/right and centre/left elect governments, Corbyn, apart from his obvious personal failings and the fact that even his own party tried to turf him out, was just too far left to be electable.

SJB

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#2375246 14-Dec-2019 11:43

Personally I think the breakup of the Union could be a positive move.

It makes no sense to me in this day and age for Northern Ireland to not be part of Ireland although any move in that direction would undoubtedly have unionists with guns on the streets again.

I don't have a problem with Scotland going it's own way either if a referendum results in a majority to leave. How long that would take to be enacted though is anyone's guess. If the first stage of leaving the EU (where membership has only been for 40+ years) has taken 3 years separating Scotland, which has been part of the union for 400 years, from the rest of the UK would take decades. And I doubt that they could rejoin the EU until that process was complete.

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#2375247 14-Dec-2019 11:48

Corbyn was unelectable. And he and his Momentum backers are in denial over why they lost.

Unfortunately Momentum now control all the levers of the Labour party. Being zealots they won't moderate their policies so unless the economy really tanks in the next 5 years they better get used to residing in the opposition wastelands. They are going to be there for a long time.

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Fred99

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#2375248 14-Dec-2019 11:50

marmel:

Meanwhile in NZ the current government (Labour/NZF) actually got less of the vote combined than the highest polling party.

Weren't you attempting to give me a lecture on "whatboutism" earlier in this thread?

Please try to stay on topic. If you want to discuss FPP vs PR, start another thread, if you want to discuss the present NZ coalition, there are plenty of existing threads.

Fred99

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#2375250 14-Dec-2019 11:58

SJB:

Personally I think the breakup of the Union could be a positive move.

It makes no sense to me in this day and age for Northern Ireland to not be part of Ireland although any move in that direction would undoubtedly have unionists with guns on the streets again.

I don't have a problem with Scotland going it's own way either if a referendum results in a majority to leave. How long that would take to be enacted though is anyone's guess. If the first stage of leaving the EU (where membership has only been for 40+ years) has taken 3 years separating Scotland, which has been part of the union for 400 years, from the rest of the UK would take decades. And I doubt that they could rejoin the EU until that process was complete.

Well if Scotland were to leave, then it brings about the familiar issues with customs union vs hard border or "something else".
I doubt it's going to happen - nor is desirable. NI - it'll be interesting to see how that progresses. For a US:UK FTA, I understand that the Democrats have said they'll block an FTA if the GFA is compromised.

marmel

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#2375267 14-Dec-2019 13:20

Fred99:
marmel:

Meanwhile in NZ the current government (Labour/NZF) actually got less of the vote combined than the highest polling party.

Weren't you attempting to give me a lecture on "whatboutism" earlier in this thread?

Please try to stay on topic. If you want to discuss FPP vs PR, start another thread, if you want to discuss the present NZ coalition, there are plenty of existing threads.

Not at all, the point I was making earlier is I suspected you were the type of person who would enjoy using the term “whataboutism”.

Case closed on that one.

Fred99

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#2375288 14-Dec-2019 14:16

marmel: I suspected you were the type of person who would enjoy using the term “whataboutism”.

Case closed on that one.

Fine. To be clear, you use whataboutism - and then try to defend it.

You deserve being called out for it.

As for your comment "suspecting (I am) the type of person etc", I suggest you read the FUG.

Just pointing out that as well as whataboutism, you're quick to launch ad-hom attacks. Both are invalid/fallacious reasoning. Case closed on that one too.

marmel

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#2375293 14-Dec-2019 14:45

Fred99:
marmel: I suspected you were the type of person who would enjoy using the term “whataboutism”.

Case closed on that one.

Fine. To be clear, you use whataboutism - and then try to defend it.

You deserve being called out for it.

As for your comment "suspecting (I am) the type of person etc", I suggest you read the FUG.

Just pointing out that as well as whataboutism, you're quick to launch ad-hom attacks. Both are invalid/fallacious reasoning. Case closed on that one too.

I don’t have an issue with whataboutism if it’s used in the correct context to make a point. I just thought you may like bringing it up and I was correct.

Glad to wear that badge thanks.

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marmel

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#2375295 14-Dec-2019 14:52

Anyway coming back to the topic I think the Scottish vote is a mute point.

As has been mentioned Boris will never agree to another Scottish referendum.

Even if he did, I suspect some of the voting Scots still think it will mean they can remain in the EU which is not the case, Scotland is gone regardless of if they are in the UK or not (assuming the UK leave).

There would then be the process of Scotland having to apply to join the EU and that is not a straight forward process either. What does Scotland have to offer the EU as a stand alone nation, would it be enough for membership?

Fred99

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#2375298 14-Dec-2019 15:15

marmel: Anyway coming back to the topic I think the Scottish vote is a mute point.

Then why are you talking about it?

marmel

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#2375303 14-Dec-2019 15:24

Fred99:
marmel: Anyway coming back to the topic I think the Scottish vote is a mute point.

Then why are you talking about it?

Well you seemed to think it was relevant that the SNP vote percentage was higher than the conservative vote percentage. Where you referred to the “Tory trolls” on twitter. I’m assuming you mean any Tory supporter posting on Twitter. I don’t often see the term “Labour troll” mentioned much, wonder why that is?

So just pointing out that the vote for the SNP is largely irrelevant for the immediate future of Scotland which is really in the hands of Boris.

GV27

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#2375304 14-Dec-2019 15:25

Can Scotland even afford to pay for its own stuff? Like if it breaks away, can it sustain itself from general taxation within its own borders?

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