Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Rikkitic

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#1722970 20-Feb-2017 11:26

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MikeB4:

Thanks for finding an example of what I have been saying, Quoting the self appointed leader of the opposition does not make it so. Example of bad reporting and "click bait" over reaction.

This does not even make sense. Did you actually read the article? And how do you turn conservative Republican John McCain into 'the leader of the opposition'? RNZ is not exactly known for 'bad reporting' or click bait. Do you even hear what you are saying?

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MikeB4

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#1722974 20-Feb-2017 11:39

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Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

Thanks for finding an example of what I have been saying, Quoting the self appointed leader of the opposition does not make it so. Example of bad reporting and "click bait" over reaction.

This does not even make sense. Did you actually read the article? And how do you turn conservative Republican John McCain into 'the leader of the opposition'? RNZ is not exactly known for 'bad reporting' or click bait. Do you even hear what you are saying?

Self appointed leader of the Trump opposition.

tstone

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#1723001 20-Feb-2017 13:20

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mattwnz: At least it is interesting to watch, a bit like allow speed train wreak. I just wonder how long it will continue. Some of the stuff he is saying / ranting is just bizarre and you can see a lack of respect from people in the audience. . He seems to be a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists with all the stuff he is saying about fake news. I wonder if he believes in aliens and Area 51, I guess he is in the position to find out if it is really true.

I can't wait until he blurts out some of the 'secrets' he has been briefed about since taking the office. I'm surprised he hasn't already, I can't stand the anticipation, this is much better than any TV show.

Rikkitic

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#1723005 20-Feb-2017 13:32

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tstone:

mattwnz: At least it is interesting to watch, a bit like allow speed train wreak. I just wonder how long it will continue. Some of the stuff he is saying / ranting is just bizarre and you can see a lack of respect from people in the audience. . He seems to be a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists with all the stuff he is saying about fake news. I wonder if he believes in aliens and Area 51, I guess he is in the position to find out if it is really true.

I can't wait until he blurts out some of the 'secrets' he has been briefed about since taking the office. I'm surprised he hasn't already, I can't stand the anticipation, this is much better than any TV show.

Would that qualify as a high crime or misdemeanor?

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Fred99

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#1723006 20-Feb-2017 13:41

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Here are some comments made by McCain in Munich:

"[The founders of the Munich conference] would be alarmed by an increasing turn away from universal values and toward old ties of blood and race and sectarianism.”
“They would be alarmed by the hardening resentment we see towards immigrants and refugees and minority groups -- especially Muslims.”
“They would be alarmed by the growing inability -- and even unwillingness -- to separate truth from lies.”
"They would be alarmed that more and more of our fellow citizens seem to be flirting with authoritarianism and romanticizing it as our moral equivalent."

The article in the WP is here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/17/john-mccain-just-systematically-dismantled-donald-trumps-entire-worldview/?utm_term=.80d0bb77d4dc#comments

If the comments section of that article (now at 12,600 posts) is an indication of public sentiment, then divide and conquer is half complete.
Most of the comments are probably coordinated troll/bot cyber-attack, there's a lot of repeat postings (of lies) by the alt:right which seem to be cut and paste disinformation (McCain's a traitor, was a coward for not "trying to escape" the Vietcong, killed 150 of his fellow crew, was "let off" because his father was in the military, lost against Obama, was never "true" - always a RINO" etc etc). Bloodlust.

McCain has clearly hit a nerve. The USA is in trouble.

mattwnz

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#1723007 20-Feb-2017 13:41

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Rikkitic:

Would that qualify as a high crime or misdemeanor?

Or a security risk!

MikeB4

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#1723011 20-Feb-2017 13:56

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The 25th amendment of the Constitution is not specific on what would constitute a misdemeanour that could see the President removed from office. That could be a legal minefield.

Rikkitic

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#1723013 20-Feb-2017 14:04

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Fred99:

McCain has clearly hit a nerve. The USA is in trouble.

The USA has been in trouble for a long time. When even Fox News says Trump has gone too far, though, maybe there is a glimmer of hope.

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MikeB4

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#1723019 20-Feb-2017 14:26

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There is a few rock and a hard place scenarios with any move to remove Mr Trump. A move by the Republican cabinet to effectively sack Trump It would create a constitutional crisis the ripples or waves from it would be felt around the Globe and would probably precipitate a financial crisis. The alternative of Impeachment is long winded and would bring US government and leadership to a stand still for sometime and again could precipitate a financial crisis.

Another rock hard place would see Mr Pence as President not a great if any improvement.

Rikkitic

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#1723026 20-Feb-2017 14:45

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Fred99:

The article in the WP is here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/17/john-mccain-just-systematically-dismantled-donald-trumps-entire-worldview/?utm_term=.80d0bb77d4dc#comments

If the comments section of that article (now at 12,600 posts) is an indication of public sentiment, then divide and conquer is half complete.
Most of the comments are probably coordinated troll/bot cyber-attack, there's a lot of repeat postings (of lies) by the alt:right which seem to be cut and paste disinformation (McCain's a traitor, was a coward for not "trying to escape" the Vietcong, killed 150 of his fellow crew, was "let off" because his father was in the military, lost against Obama, was never "true" - always a RINO" etc etc). Bloodlust.

If you tell enough lies often enough, people start to believe them. Trump has repeatedly been caught out telling lies, or untruths, or fake news, or whatever you want to call it. His latest was claiming that something bad happened in Sweden, which prompted a former Swedish prime minister to wonder what he had been smoking.

Trump lied about his rivals during the nomination and election. He has lied about his critics since then. He has lied about the media he doesn’t approve of. That is the media that checks his facts and reports his lies.

Guess what? A critical article is published that quotes John McCain. In the comments section are repeated many of the lies Trump has previously told. Lies about McCain and lies about the media. People are starting to believe them and repeat them. The more they get repeated, the more people believe them. Sometimes you don’t even need the lies. It is enough just to suggest McCain or the media are bad. Because they have already swallowed the lies, people are happy to fill in the gaps.

As people believe more and more of the lies told about the media that are doing the fact-checking, they believe less and less of what the media are saying about the lies. Soon the lies become the new truth and there is no-one left to check them.

Does any of this sound familiar?

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MikeB4

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#1723034 20-Feb-2017 15:01

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Politicians are not and haven't been the bastions of truth add to that a press that is also not the bastions of truth it leaves one with a huge amount of clouds to navigate through. By the the time one has struggled through the lies, half truths, mistakes, showmanship, self promotion, revenue seeking, fiction writing and just plain garbage one is left with what may well be the truth of the time if you are lucky.

Rikkitic

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#1723060 20-Feb-2017 15:06

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So you are saying you think nothing has changed under Trump, and this is how it always has been?

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Fred99

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#1723073 20-Feb-2017 15:15

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MikeB4:

The 25th amendment of the Constitution is not specific on what would constitute a misdemeanour that could see the President removed from office. That could be a legal minefield.

That's actually article 2 section 4 of the constitution.

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High crimes and Misdemeanors.

A bit of a legal minefield of course - what the hell is a "misdemeanor" - or what the hell was a misdemeanor when that was written?

The 25th amendment is to deal with presidential succession (in case of the president being removed from office or incapacitated)

It's in the news because section 4 of the amendment deals with what happens when the president is unable to discharge his duties, the argument that Trump may have lost his marbles - thus that clause may be a means to get rid of him.

Chances of that are close to zero (IMO), the vice president would need to declare him unfit, it would need to get through congress. That apart from the fact that there'd be a holy war between psychiatrists / doctors from various sides as to whether he was indeed suffering from any particular specific disorder, and even if that was agreed (unlikely IMO) whether that impaired his ability to discharge his duties.

On Trump's side, he was a nasty narcissistic petulant compulsive liar and braggart before he was elected POTUS. It might be hard to argue that he was "getting worse" when he's actually being better behaved (from a very low base of course) now he is president.

MikeAqua

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#1723075 20-Feb-2017 15:17

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MikeB4:

Politicians are not and haven't been the bastions of truth add to that a press that is also not the bastions of truth it leaves one with a huge amount of clouds to navigate through. By the the time one has struggled through the lies, half truths, mistakes, showmanship, self promotion, revenue seeking, fiction writing and just plain garbage one is left with what may well be the truth of the time if you are lucky.

Yep. Do you believe the nutty-right politician (and right-biased Fox) or the Left biased media, who abandoned objectivity long before Trump won the primary?

Hobson's choice ...

If Trump isn't an idiotic, megalomaniac, liar (and the left media look like idiots) or he is and we all lose. Or he gets impeached and the VeeP is as bad or worse.

For the Left it's either loss or pyrrhic victory ... no wonder they are hysterical

Mike

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#1723078 20-Feb-2017 15:22

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Mr Trump is bringing into focus what has been for sometime. The Press has become a revenue stream and needs to be viewed always in that light, they select and highlight those "stories" that will bring them that revenue and embellish them if need be. Politicians have been creative with the truth for so long the leader of a cave was probably a BS artist.

Now some untruths by politicians are uttered for the good, e.g. Neville Chamberlain after his Munich meeting with Mr Hitler knew he did not have "piece in our time", he was calming the public and buying time.

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