Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Rikkitic

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#1723079 20-Feb-2017 15:25

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Fred99:

A bit of a legal minefield of course - what the hell is a "misdemeanor" - or what the hell was a misdemeanor when that was written?

The 25th amendment is to deal with presidential succession (in case of the president being removed from office or incapacitated)

It's in the news because section 4 of the amendment deals with what happens when the president is unable to discharge his duties, the argument that Trump may have lost his marbles - thus that clause may be a means to get rid of him.

This might interest you:

http://www.salon.com/2017/01/31/forget-impeachment-donald-trump-can-be-driven-from-office-but-probably-not-that-way/

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#1723082 20-Feb-2017 15:29

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tdgeek:

Im not getting any emails re thread replies. Just me? Should I unset that and set it back? I have checked, I am still set for them.

They were ALL in spam. Weird. I've un spammed the Presidents thread to see what happens

Fred99

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#1723083 20-Feb-2017 15:29

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MikeB4:

Politicians are not and haven't been the bastions of truth add to that a press that is also not the bastions of truth it leaves one with a huge amount of clouds to navigate through. By the the time one has struggled through the lies, half truths, mistakes, showmanship, self promotion, revenue seeking, fiction writing and just plain garbage one is left with what may well be the truth of the time if you are lucky.

The scale of Trump's lying is hugely unprecedented by any leader in any contemporary western/liberal first-world democracy.

From time to time (including in NZ) politicians get upset about how things are reported in the media. My impression is that while sometimes the mainstream media get it wrong, they more than often get it right.

The Washington Post, New York times etc are being demonised by the authoritarian Trumpists for telling the truth. One of the most satisfying things happening is that the more Trump attacks with lies saying they're "failing" with falling subscriptions etc, the more their readership and subscriptions are growing.

MikeB4

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#1723085 20-Feb-2017 15:31

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The only probable time and by no means certain to get Mr Trump out of office is 2020. Unless he does things so bad that the Republicans for the sake of their survival believe he needs to go but that is a very very long shot.

MikeB4

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#1723086 20-Feb-2017 15:32

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tdgeek:

tdgeek:

Im not getting any emails re thread replies. Just me? Should I unset that and set it back? I have checked, I am still set for them.

They were ALL in spam. Weird. I've un spammed the Presidents thread to see what happens

Now that is interesting

Rikkitic

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#1723087 20-Feb-2017 15:32

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I think the idea that all politicians are liars and all media are only in it for the money is a surrender to despair. I'm not even sure what a left- or right-wing bias is. Events can be interpreted in different ways, but if there is respect for facts, intelligent people can make up their own minds. Some of the views here seem awfully cynical to me. If people actually believe this, why bother resisting Trump at all?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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18657 posts

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#1723088 20-Feb-2017 15:33

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tdgeek:

tdgeek:

Im not getting any emails re thread replies. Just me? Should I unset that and set it back? I have checked, I am still set for them.

They were ALL in spam. Weird. I've un spammed the Presidents thread to see what happens

Your email filter may be smarter than you think!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#1723091 20-Feb-2017 15:36

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Fred99:

MikeB4:

Politicians are not and haven't been the bastions of truth add to that a press that is also not the bastions of truth it leaves one with a huge amount of clouds to navigate through. By the the time one has struggled through the lies, half truths, mistakes, showmanship, self promotion, revenue seeking, fiction writing and just plain garbage one is left with what may well be the truth of the time if you are lucky.

The scale of Trump's lying is hugely unprecedented by any leader in any contemporary western/liberal first-world democracy.

From time to time (including in NZ) politicians get upset about how things are reported in the media. My impression is that while sometimes the mainstream media get it wrong, they more than often get it right.

The Washington Post, New York times etc are being demonised by the authoritarian Trumpists for telling the truth. One of the most satisfying things happening is that the more Trump attacks with lies saying they're "failing" with falling subscriptions etc, the more their readership and subscriptions are growing.

Yes. If his lies were less frequent, they become, "hmm maybe he is right or there is more to it" But the way he is, he just adds more and more weight to his dropping credibility, which adds more weight to everyone who criticises him, and that goes way beyond media. The latest of many is an ex Swedish Govt Minister asks what has he been smoking?

MikeB4

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#1723092 20-Feb-2017 15:37

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I worked in the Fourth Estate, so my view is somewhat from the inside until I left for the fresh air. The same can be said for my decades in Government.

MikeB4

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#1723098 20-Feb-2017 15:41

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Fred99:

MikeB4:

Politicians are not and haven't been the bastions of truth add to that a press that is also not the bastions of truth it leaves one with a huge amount of clouds to navigate through. By the the time one has struggled through the lies, half truths, mistakes, showmanship, self promotion, revenue seeking, fiction writing and just plain garbage one is left with what may well be the truth of the time if you are lucky.

The scale of Trump's lying is hugely unprecedented by any leader in any contemporary western/liberal first-world democracy.

From time to time (including in NZ) politicians get upset about how things are reported in the media. My impression is that while sometimes the mainstream media get it wrong, they more than often get it right.

The Washington Post, New York times etc are being demonised by the authoritarian Trumpists for telling the truth. One of the most satisfying things happening is that the more Trump attacks with lies saying they're "failing" with falling subscriptions etc, the more their readership and subscriptions are growing.

There is no denying that Mr Trump has taken it to the level of an art form but the optimist in me also wonders if he is being manipulated and fed BS from advisors with covert agendas and others with similar agendas. He is a canny business operator but he is a novice to Washington and and absolute novice on the international scene, there are many that are far more canny than he is and know how to get their way.

Fred99

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#1723107 20-Feb-2017 15:47

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MikeB4:

I worked in the Fourth Estate, so my view is somewhat from the inside until I left for the fresh air. The same can be said for my decades in Government.

You seem to be apologising for Trump falling for the Russian propaganda technique of "whatboutism":

"yeah Trump lies - but whatabout the press, other politician etc".

I suggest you wake up a bit.

BTW the Chamberlain quote was "peace for our time", and you really have no idea whether he was lying, deceived, or perhaps just believed in himself a little too strongly.

Of course anti-semitism was rife at the time, which includes turning a blind eye, much the same as is happening with tolerance by some for persecution of muslims today.

Fred99

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#1723112 20-Feb-2017 15:53

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MikeB4:

Fred99:

MikeB4:

Politicians are not and haven't been the bastions of truth add to that a press that is also not the bastions of truth it leaves one with a huge amount of clouds to navigate through. By the the time one has struggled through the lies, half truths, mistakes, showmanship, self promotion, revenue seeking, fiction writing and just plain garbage one is left with what may well be the truth of the time if you are lucky.

The scale of Trump's lying is hugely unprecedented by any leader in any contemporary western/liberal first-world democracy.

From time to time (including in NZ) politicians get upset about how things are reported in the media. My impression is that while sometimes the mainstream media get it wrong, they more than often get it right.

The Washington Post, New York times etc are being demonised by the authoritarian Trumpists for telling the truth. One of the most satisfying things happening is that the more Trump attacks with lies saying they're "failing" with falling subscriptions etc, the more their readership and subscriptions are growing.

There is no denying that Mr Trump has taken it to the level of an art form but the optimist in me also wonders if he is being manipulated and fed BS from advisors with covert agendas and others with similar agendas. He is a canny business operator but he is a novice to Washington and and absolute novice on the international scene, there are many that are far more canny than he is and know how to get their way.

After many years in business negotiation where you'd often get "cornered" when trying to be a bit too clever for your own boots, the available options were to zip it and lick your wounds, tell the truth, or embellish a "position" into a lie. The last option never works long-term - except perhaps for shyster door to door salesman and drunks. I'm amazed that people he's dealt with in business put up with it - but OTOH he's always had the advantage of being born rich and powerful, and it did happen in America where they've lost track of what meritocracy means to conclude that merely having wealth is proof of individual merit. As Trump would say - wrong!

MikeB4

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#1723116 20-Feb-2017 15:54

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Fred99:

MikeB4:

I worked in the Fourth Estate, so my view is somewhat from the inside until I left for the fresh air. The same can be said for my decades in Government.

You seem to be apologising for Trump falling for the Russian propaganda technique of "whatboutism":

"yeah Trump lies - but whatabout the press, other politician etc".

I suggest you wake up a bit.

BTW the Chamberlain quote was "peace for our time", and you really have no idea whether he was lying, deceived, or perhaps just believed in himself a little too strongly.

Of course anti-semitism was rife at the time, which includes turning a blind eye, much the same as is happening with tolerance by some for persecution of muslims today.

I am quite awake thanks and I have both eyes open.

MikeB4

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#1723117 20-Feb-2017 15:55

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Fred99:

After many years in business negotiation where you'd often get "cornered" when trying to be a bit too clever for your own boots, the available options were to zip it and lick your wounds, tell the truth, or embellish a "position" into lie. The last option never works long-term - except perhaps for shyster door to door salesman and drunks.

Or you become a billionaire.

Fred99

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#1723119 20-Feb-2017 16:02

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MikeB4:

Fred99:

After many years in business negotiation where you'd often get "cornered" when trying to be a bit too clever for your own boots, the available options were to zip it and lick your wounds, tell the truth, or embellish a "position" into lie. The last option never works long-term - except perhaps for shyster door to door salesman and drunks.

Or you become a billionaire.

You still gotta serve somebody...

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